Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Present day final fantasy games are merely really cool graphics and a really cool story disguised as a video game.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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I don't like this 'follow this quest path through this area' type of gameplay. It's like I'm playing a single player game progressing through a level. It's fundamentally altered the primary purpose a MMO - I go where I want, when I want. I might die going there, but at least there is content there. Now you can only access the content by following the one single pathway through it. They are basically telling us how to play their game.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Consider it the pre-SWToR impact. This is how SWToR will be, except moreso.

'What I don't like is, every single quest is a chain. You do one after the other, not taking a few and branching off. You can't get more quests without finishing the 1-2 that you have. I only had 1-2 quests active at any given time. It feels really bottlenecked instead of open.'

I couldn't agree more. For a few minutes earlier today, I thought I didn't have any more quests at my current hub so I went wandering 'ahead' into unexplored areas in Vashj'ir, and found it largely empty. When I went back to my hub and found a missing quest, it opened up other quests and phases that populated and gave purpose to the areas I'd wandered into earlier.

I don't like this 'follow this quest path through this area' type of gameplay. It's like I'm playing a single player game progressing through a level. It's fundamentally altered the primary purpose a MMO - I go where I want, when I want. I might die going there, but at least there is content there. Now you can only access the content by following the one single pathway through it. They are basically telling us how to play their game.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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They are basically telling us how to play their game.

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TinMan52 posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Present day final fantasy games are merely really cool graphics and a really cool story disguised as a video game.

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WoW has moved more towards telling a very scripted story. However, I think the quote above is an extreme that doesn't necessarily apply here.

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_Taebo_ posted:

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I dunno what it is, maybe because it's a 3rd expansion for a 6 year old game, but I haven't had any queue's since Cataclysm launched. Everyone seems happy Cataclysm is here, but I don't see the enthusiasm as the last 2 or initial launch.

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slythetove posted:

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_Taebo_ posted:

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I dunno what it is, maybe because it's a 3rd expansion for a 6 year old game, but I haven't had any queue's since Cataclysm launched. Everyone seems happy Cataclysm is here, but I don't see the enthusiasm as the last 2 or initial launch.

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The queue to log in to my server on Tuesday night at 7PM CST was over 1600. It took more than an hour. That's the longest queue I've ever seen on my server, so I would say this statement could be very server dependent.

--Sly

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--Syrus-- posted:

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I actually prefer the streamline questing. In the old world I couldn't do multiple zones at once I had to had to start deleting quests when my log was full which was very annoying. I really like the story driven quest lines, it feels a lot less like I am just the zones B---- running around delivering this note, doing groceries for this npc, picking up poop over here.

The quests I am doing advance a story line and with all the phasing it is as close to a dynamic world is I think we are going to get.

The exploration and discovering things like Mithan mentioned I do miss. However for me that feeling was short lived in WoW. Even in Vanilla compared to AC I felt the world was small and pretty rail roaded as it was. There was no deep dark cave to explore that I had to fight my way tooth and nail down for an hour to get to the bottom of, then call on my guildies to help me get back out of. You found a cave, reconized which cookie cutter cave lay out it was and instantly new where to go for the objectives.

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Pacorra posted:

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Can't please everyone. People used to complain that quests sent you running all over the place, and that you had no impact in the world...

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huldu posted:

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I was a bit surprise to barely see any noticeable change in the amount of players in lotro. I really expected the game to "crash and burn" with the cataclysm expansion release. In the end i guess people are easily fooled by the "f2p" trick. Lotro has one thing WoW does not have, a good community of players. The game sadly lacks and feels very unpolished and buggy. As for WoW, now that game is very polished and is great, however the community in WoW... just terrible.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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--Syrus-- posted:

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I actually prefer the streamline questing. In the old world I couldn't do multiple zones at once I had to had to start deleting quests when my log was full which was very annoying. I really like the story driven quest lines, it feels a lot less like I am just the zones B---- running around delivering this note, doing groceries for this npc, picking up poop over here.

The quests I am doing advance a story line and with all the phasing it is as close to a dynamic world is I think we are going to get.

The exploration and discovering things like Mithan mentioned I do miss. However for me that feeling was short lived in WoW. Even in Vanilla compared to AC I felt the world was small and pretty rail roaded as it was. There was no deep dark cave to explore that I had to fight my way tooth and nail down for an hour to get to the bottom of, then call on my guildies to help me get back out of. You found a cave, reconized which cookie cutter cave lay out it was and instantly new where to go for the objectives.

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The problem I have with this is that, although I don't disagree with sentiment of feeling 'heroic', I wonder about how you'll feel the next time through the exact same content. Will you still feel like a hero knowing you've still got 50 or 80 quests to get through before your next level up? Will you champion the causes your character fights for as you go there, kill a bit of trash, collect a few items, then return to your current hub, then get passed on to the next link in the chain?

For me the problem here is that this type of linear gameplay in an MMO really goes against the things that are most appealing about the genre. I don't want to have to go through the content the same way as everyone else. I want to have choices on where I can go and when. I want to get lost, I want to mess up. When I die, or when I kill someone, I want it to mean something, either in reward for me, or pain for the person I kill.

There is constant interaction in the new zones between the two factions, and pvp fights seem to spring up at the drop of a hat. But what's the point of these fights? You die, you go the GY a few seconds away, swim back, resurrect, and you are either in the fight again or staying off to the side. You might earn a bit of honour.

None of it matters. You and every single other person will complete all of the same quests, will witness all of the same cutscenes, and will be called a hero by all of the same NPC's. You are as heroic and as unique as a blade of grass - strong and powerful in any environment, but exactly the same as every single other blade of grass.

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DragonKeeperofThi posted:

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once something a bit better comes along everyone will hop on.

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Pacorra posted:

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Can't please everyone. People used to complain that quests sent you running all over the place, and that you had no impact in the world...

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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For me the problem here is that this type of linear gameplay in an MMO really goes against the things that are most appealing about the genre.

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Pacorra posted:

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But WoW became the juggernaut of MMOs by going slightly against what you describe, focusing on the "game" aspects over the "world" aspects. Part of the problem is that virtual worlds sound more appealing than they really end up being in practice.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Blizzard could have released almost anything, as long as it was casual friendly, and results would have been much the same.

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Pacorra posted:

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Blizzard could have released almost anything, as long as it was casual friendly, and results would have been much the same.

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Well, yeah, but "casual friendly" is not just a label that you attach to any game; the game must be designed and built in a way that attracts and retains casual players. I would say the handholding, the constant feeling of progress, and the amount of focus on easy and quick single-player content are absolutely essential to WoW's casual-friendliness and success.

Perhaps there were/are other ways to make a casual-friendly, successful MMO, ways that include making a world rather than a theme park, but I don't know what they are.

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jojo263 posted:

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Blizzard will do whatever it takes to make the que times as fast as possible. I already see lots of guilds in trade recruiting for bgs that's gonna be where all the action is.

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TruthyID posted:

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jojo263 posted:

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Blizzard will do whatever it takes to make the que times as fast as possible. I already see lots of guilds in trade recruiting for bgs that's gonna be where all the action is.

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They're talking about queues to get onto the server, not BG queues

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Spookysheep posted:

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Once the no lifers progress to the raid content, blizzard will nerf heroics in a massive way, in a single patch.

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