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Topic: I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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amokscience69
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I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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I've been playing since release, and with the exception of a bumps, they've always done a good job of getting things done in a timely fashion. Certainly, they've made some boneheaded moves, and no doubt weekly downtime amounting to 5% of weekly playtime is unacceptable. But I've always been confident that they will have us taken care of within a short time frame of when we expect- which is why we're accustomed to being ready to login early or at least watch realm-status.
But given some of the idiotic moves this expansion, all the peeps calling this the B-team, AND now a simple patch update being so poorly done that it won't download (27 meg takes 2 hours now?) properly, I'm starting to worry the naysayers are spot on. Come on, druids thorns were obviously released broken, and while I enjoy winning WG now, obviously it was never designed for 8 on 8 with 40 of one side queued, fixing it would have made some sense rather than introducing something else broken (tenacity with reasonable CC constraints?)
The only thing I've actually been confident this last month is that the turkey fest wouldn't be a cluster-@#$% since it's been in place 2 years.
Someone tell me this really hasn't been programmed by the scrubs, and that this isn't really what we're looking forward to.
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Foojo
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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It's not simple. This is a massive change of expansion proportions. Cut them some slack.
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jojo263
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Yeah the shattering was pretty smooth on the PTR like a on switch.
Something must have been really really bad which is why at noon they gave a 5PM ETA, if you have been playing for 6 years you know most of the time blizzard drags it out and only tells you each hour it might take another hour or so.
As far as WG goes who knows how well it will work as most of the people aren't even wasting time to que up for it right now.
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o-0-Core-0-o
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Basically what is being done right now IS the launch of the expansion if you want to look at it like this. This is almost all of the framework for the expansion. This isn't like a standard bug fix patch or something of that nature. They also have tons of realms that they have to make sure work properly. I honestly wasn't expecting anything much less than this tbh. Now if cataclysm's launch isn't very fluid I would be upset :P
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-Peo-
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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This is what the norm will be, and this is what happens when you have a mostly good dev team led by an egomaniac who makes stupid changes based on whatever he wants to do. Ghostcrawler is a bad dev, who constantly changes his tune from one end of the spectrum to the other. The problem is, people are too addicted to the game and won't protest the only way that matters, by unsubbing. And it will only get worse. My only hope is in a year when GC has finally pissed off enough people, they fire him and get a real Lead Dev, he fades into the background and becomes a punchline and the game gets back on track.
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djcline
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I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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I remember when Alterac Valley was first launched and the queue would sometimes be a day or more just to get in. I also remember zoning into a battle there, leaving to go to the movies, dinner, etc and coming back to the same battle going on several hours later. AV has been changed over and over and over and over since then, so don't worry...this too shall pass.
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Everyone likes taking shots at #1 so that makes Blizz a popular target. There are a lot of folks that just want to predict the eventual downfall of WoW (we all know it will happen, just not when) so with any new change they pop up and start their prediction cycle over again. With Cat, they have taken to labeling Blizz's current crop of Devs as the b team and now predict the games failure as a result. As usual, I like some of the changes, dislike others and am fairly ambivalent about the rest. Maybe this will be when WoW finally starts to decline, maybe not but we all are in for a lot of armchair developing, that much is true 
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-Mythril-
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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http://www.eldergame.com/2009/07/the-warcraft-live-teams-b-squad/
it's kind of an interesting re-read 15 months after he wrote it. Made a ton of sense then. Shows foresight when reading it now.
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PopsGoesTheWeasel
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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[quote=amokscience69] AND now a simple patch update being so poorly done that it won't download (27 meg takes 2 hours now?) properly, I'm starting to worry the naysayers are spot on. Come on, druids thorns were obviously released broken, and while I enjoy winning WG now, obviously it was never designed for 8 on 8 with 40 of one side queued, fixing it would have made some sense rather than introducing something else broken (tenacity with reasonable CC constraints?)
quote]
A SIMPLE patch? Hell, kid, you can't even get your homework done on time..... go away.
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Sociop
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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PopsGoesTheWeasel posted:
[quote=amokscience69] AND now a simple patch update being so poorly done that it won't download (27 meg takes 2 hours now?) properly, I'm starting to worry the naysayers are spot on. Come on, druids thorns were obviously released broken, and while I enjoy winning WG now, obviously it was never designed for 8 on 8 with 40 of one side queued, fixing it would have made some sense rather than introducing something else broken (tenacity with reasonable CC constraints?)
quote]
A SIMPLE patch? Hell, kid, you can't even get your homework done on time..... go away.
It may not be simple to code all the changes the patch will bring about but it's implementation should without question at least on the server side be without any issues whatsoever. They know all the software & hardware involved in advance, they have have ample time to test install and iron out any bugs prior to going live. So they really have no excuses at all for server side patch issues & delays on patch day and they never have.
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takhteh
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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-Mythril- posted:
http://www.eldergame.com/2009/07/the-warcraft-live-teams-b-squad/
it's kind of an interesting re-read 15 months after he wrote it. Made a ton of sense then. Shows foresight when reading it now.
One should read this. Thanks Mithril.
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amokscience69
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I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Note, I wasn't complaining that the patch was taking time, I expected that, but that there was problems with even implementing a patch, ala, I was crashing to desktop while happening, and that is NOT something I had seen from blizz before. Withholding judgement, but B-team talk has me worried. Some things are obvious, like that Obama was gonna be a newb in office, some things the experts agree on are just naive, like virtual reality being the next great thing, and there are things that experts can and do call spot on, like WoW being big even before it was released. I doubted it, but those in the know, knew. I don't want to be caught waiting to enjoy something I should dump before I invest considerable time in; as we should all worry about.
"A SIMPLE patch? Hell, kid, you can't even get your homework done on time..... go away."
Kid? I wish, 41 going on %^&$, about to puke over 80s fashion coming back again, =(, when it was horrendous the first time around. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but it WAS hideous.
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-Mithan-
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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They changed the ENTIRE F***ING WORLD and people bitched and whine they were down for a few extra hours?
Christ.
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Dums
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Mithan. Bro.
Cookie?
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Dums
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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amokscience69 posted:
about to puke over 80s fashion coming back again, =(, when it was horrendous the first time around. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but it WAS hideous.
No way man! I had a pair of parachute pants that were all kinds of different neon colors. Sooo comfy.
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kyrv
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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amokscience69 posted:
I've been playing since release, and with the exception of a bumps, they've always done a good job of getting things done in a timely fashion. Certainly, they've made some boneheaded moves, and no doubt weekly downtime amounting to 5% of weekly playtime is unacceptable. But I've always been confident that they will have us taken care of within a short time frame of when we expect- which is why we're accustomed to being ready to login early or at least watch realm-status.
But given some of the idiotic moves this expansion, all the peeps calling this the B-team, AND now a simple patch update being so poorly done that it won't download (27 meg takes 2 hours now?) properly, I'm starting to worry the naysayers are spot on. Come on, druids thorns were obviously released broken, and while I enjoy winning WG now, obviously it was never designed for 8 on 8 with 40 of one side queued, fixing it would have made some sense rather than introducing something else broken (tenacity with reasonable CC constraints?)
The only thing I've actually been confident this last month is that the turkey fest wouldn't be a cluster-@#$% since it's been in place 2 years.
Someone tell me this really hasn't been programmed by the scrubs, and that this isn't really what we're looking forward to.
Are you serious?
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kyrv
Title: Lord Logicus
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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-Mithan- posted:
They changed the ENTIRE F***ING WORLD and people bitched and whine they were down for a few extra hours?
Christ.
Well, you know, they keep hearing this term B team tossed around. I mean, what's that about? You hear things.
And good grief to the OP.
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Ansithe
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I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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This is when I realizes some people really have no lives out of wow LOL.
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amokscience69
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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mithan posted:
They changed the ENTIRE F***ING WORLD and people bitched and whine they were down for a few extra hours?
Project much? Anyone complain about downtime? Pretty sure this was posted after servers came back up. You're not secretly becoming a fanboy now I hope?!?!
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Liquid741
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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-Mithan- posted:
They changed the ENTIRE F***ING WORLD and people bitched and whine they were down for a few extra hours?
Christ.
this!
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Cawlin
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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-Mythril- posted:
http://www.eldergame.com/2009/07/the-warcraft-live-teams-b-squad/
it's kind of an interesting re-read 15 months after he wrote it. Made a ton of sense then. Shows foresight when reading it now.
Wow...
This was my first read of this.
My career is software development QA (not in the gaming industry though).
That entire article is like a gaming industry version of what goes on out in the business world of ERP type (massive) systems and the like.
The discussion of how the development team changes when the product goes live and how the reduced influence of QA and developer oversight over time starts to become evident in the decline in the product is actually kind of cathartic to read as it's been a suspicion of mine for years with respect to the direction and ultimate "design" implementation of this game that this is what happened.
I could regale you all with dozens of stories of how the "rock star" (to quote the article) QA and developers wind up moving on to other positions/projects/companies when a big system goes live and how the newbs or "B-team" take over on it with the resulting Hell breaking loose. Except those would be stories from the world of Fortune 500, multinational, enterprise level, multi-billion dollar, integrated systems, and would be boring as hell. You can catch my act at industry conferences where I give presentations on that sort of crap. Suffice it to say that what you see in WoW is just a more interesting version (because it's a game, and not a system managing clinical trial data representing billions of dollars of research, FTEs, and future pipeline speculation) of the same stuff played out in a different business sector.
Developers who will tell you that this is not the way things happen are liars or are the "B-team" members themselves and aren't aware of it (and in that respect, it's just like going to a poker game - if after 10 minutes you can't spot the newb, it's you).
I wonder very much if GC and his "Live Team" ever took the advice the author of that article gave at the end. Something tells me they never did.
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Dums posted:
amokscience69 posted:
about to puke over 80s fashion coming back again, =(, when it was horrendous the first time around. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but it WAS hideous.
No way man! I had a pair of parachute pants that were all kinds of different neon colors. Sooo comfy.
The last time I wore parachute pants, I had to worry about certain classes because there were tons of hot chicks in there which, in parachute pants, left nothing to the imagination.  Ah, the good ol' days. When kids could fight it out, girls didn't get offended when we complimented tits and guys with an unintended boner weren't taken away by the cops for harassment.
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Malachi256
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I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Meh, I wasn't very impressed by the article. Some guy from AC2 critiquing Blizzard? That alone is makes me skeptical. That game couldn't even keep 30k+ subscribers. And the support for his argument revolves around the hunter arrow changes? Seriously?
Blizzard has been making "good" changes and "bad" changes since vanilla in WoW - it's not some new "B" team phenomenon. And they've been screwing things up and fixing them since vanilla. The only major problems I have with WoW right now are the same problems I've had for years, and they're mostly big-picture philosophical differences that will never change.
All this "B" team nonsense is just the local WoW version of FUD. The problems with the whole 4.0+ transition have been irritating, but the way Bliz is handling is basically brilliant. Staggered release of major changes / updates, weeks in advance of the actual x-pac going live, so that (hopefully) all major issues can be handled before the flood of players jumps into the new content. I'm betting that on December 7th, which will probably break all sorts of records for number of players all playing the same MMO, we will see a smooth launch.
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kyrv
Title: Lord Logicus
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Subject:
I keep hearing this "B team" tossed around, with this poor patching, I'm starting to worry
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Malachi256 posted:
Meh, I wasn't very impressed by the article. Some guy from AC2 critiquing Blizzard? That alone is makes me skeptical. That game couldn't even keep 30k+ subscribers. And the support for his argument revolves around the hunter arrow changes? Seriously?
Blizzard has been making "good" changes and "bad" changes since vanilla in WoW - it's not some new "B" team phenomenon. And they've been screwing things up and fixing them since vanilla. The only major problems I have with WoW right now are the same problems I've had for years, and they're mostly big-picture philosophical differences that will never change.
All this "B" team nonsense is just the local WoW version of FUD. The problems with the whole 4.0+ transition have been irritating, but the way Bliz is handling is basically brilliant. Staggered release of major changes / updates, weeks in advance of the actual x-pac going live, so that (hopefully) all major issues can be handled before the flood of players jumps into the new content. I'm betting that on December 7th, which will probably break all sorts of records for number of players all playing the same MMO, we will see a smooth launch.
Ya, I can't really say the game is worse. It might be the B team, but maybe their B team is better than some games A teams. Looking at you get me 3 star talent Barnett, the circus barker/clown.
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