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Topic: Decal needs to be open source
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Arc_DT
Title: Mithan said I am smart
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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I'm in no position to make empty threats of "Or we'll make a competing product!", but this recent round has helped highlight some problems. Because it is closed-source, we as consumers don't get the opportunity to examine the source code and compile it ourselves. Because we can't see the source code, the decal dev team can't take new developers, because they'd have to place a huge amount of trust in a new developer. Because of all of this, the memlocs XML is encrypted for security reasons. Because memlocs are encrypted, we have ONE PERSON we we trusted to perpetuate the franchise of a commercial entity by doing the updates himself. Because this person has a real life outside of AC, the playerbase had to wait and whine, and eventually we had another dev put up some memlocs that he acknowledges are incomplete and might be buggy.
Decal as open source is going to get a LOT more help. You'll get people like me who know some coding but have greater strengths in keeping the website up to date and providing documentation to users and plugin developers. You'll get people who can handle tech support. You'll get new features by fresh talent with different perspectives. Your core developers can continue to participate as much or as little as they desire, and the product will perpetuate. Because everything the contributors add will be open, there will be little chance of people installing trojans. There will be forking to deal with, but that should be tolerable.
Get on it.
-----signature-----
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-Grover Norquist
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MICHIGAN - Where the trees are the right height!
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agnari
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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great case of hoof n mouth disease.
wow took almost 36 hours to get memlocs up wha wha wha
from what was finally posted the usual memloc expert is in the process of moving and another had to do it. I suggest right now you start turing off decal and learning HOW to play the game.
cause as we get closer and closer to the 10th anniv, I expect some changes to the 'messages' and other turbine stuff that last time took days to decrypt and then make changes and finally locate all the memlocs. so i predict you will be soon pulling massive amounts of hair out your head since you can't play without decal.
-----signature-----
Ag Nar
Portal Mule Master of the Loresraat
Mastering the pixels of gamedom, 1 MMORPG at a time..
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-paradoxlost-
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Decal needs to be open source
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i never acknowledged they were incomplete or buggy. i simply stated that they were untested, as is stated every month. and when did we become a commercial franchise? that actually made me laugh! for the record, the patch process is almost completely automated, this one just caught a LOT of us AFK (1 moving, 1 on vacation, 1 started a new job, etc). besides, making decal open source wouldn't help the patch process at all, since we'd never make the signatures generally available.
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Paloma_
Title: Punstress
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Sweet LORD...
The vast MAJORITY of Decal updates over the years took up to a WEEK... It is only relatively recently that memlocs have been released so quickly. So recently in fact that many of us still talk about being surprised and unused to it.
And people STILL quested and explored on patch day, without Decal. If you want an opensource plugin handler, make one. Feel free to try to compete with Decal. Good gawd.
-----signature-----
http://www.thehaven-we.com ****Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or diplomacy are transmission errors. . . Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock "I don't care if I am a lemming -- I'm not going!!"
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Maglett_of_FF
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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I am overall quite PLEASED with how fast they were able to compensate for the 'normal' dev's on Memloc duty being unavailable. I personally was expecting monday evening or tuesday before they would be available.
Decal Dev's, you beat expectations (well mine once it was apparent there was an issue). GOOD JOB guys, thanks for getting the job done once again.
As I said in one of my other recent posts, Decal Dev's thanks for taking on this NON-paying job and providing MANY people with tedium relief so we can play the game not get carpal tunnel syndrome. Also thanks for putting up with cranky and sometime whiney folks who think they are entitled to have instant or near instant service all the time, life and ESPECIALLY decal is not that way :^)
Edit:
Oh, hey Arc, why does decal *NEED* to be open source for you to help with the website? From what I've read/seen of time is they bring people in gradually after building some trust, they don't just dump people into working on the New View system, or memloc's they ahve to see that people can handle the work and are not just trying to plunder the code for secrets. Yes, Secret's , the memloc's were changed to encoded status after people found ways of abusing the servers with Decal, if they hadn't I doubt we'd have Decal or even AC at this point. Mostly because I, like many I know wouldn't play AC without a prospect of decal reducing tedium unless Turbine fixed many of the things we currently use Decal for. Decal compensates for many of the things newer games have built in stock.
-----signature-----
Edits are for spelling :^) Trophy Compendium http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=90389010 /a Devil's Saint says, "what we teach our Children we become" June 3, 2008
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NK_Wizarium
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Decal is a delicate balancing act. If it weren't for the fact that the source is closed and some data encrypted, Turbine would've shite-canned it long ago, with obvious good reasons.
The trust developed between each Decal dev team and Turbine is critical to the survival, period. Demanding that Decal become open source, or even demanding they take on more developers is absurd at best. It's ok to think out loud. It's ok to even type into a posting dialogue box. The failure is in hitting the Post Reply button.
-----signature-----
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YosserY2k
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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To be honest i couldn't play the game (nor be bothered) if Decal wasn't there. Decal makes the whole experience so much better and I sincerely thank those who keep it going.
I dont know how much co-operation there is with Turbine Dev team and Decal dev but there should be a whole lot.
I am sure there are so many of us who have it (Decal) intergrated with there play style and would leave the game if Decal became extinct. And I am sure there are those who would say good ridance as the door closes on our backside. But be careful what you wish for, the player base is fragile as it stands right now.
I have been in this game since 2000 and used various plugins in that time, always hitting the donate button as a thank you. Where's the donate button for Decal, I am sure enough people would, that could at least get you guys a deserved cold beer. Thank you
-----signature-----
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Chef_Wubbie
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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GBTDT!
As soon as your paying them well to work exclusively on Decal, then you can make these stupid demands. Until such time, shut up.
Get your panties out of the bunch that the pucker seems to have pulled up into your body.
By all means if your unhappy with how Decal is being run, uninstall it and never use it again.
You have all the answers, write your own. Maybe then you can be on the otherside of the equation and see how mindlessly stupid the demands and whining from the masses are.
Its obvious from your attitude you believe your entitled to something special. Big shocker for you, YOUR NOT.
When you get older, they will drop and then you can be a real boy.
wubbie - seriously are you out of your fing mind?
-----signature-----
WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
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shojimbo
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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What a jackass! Just like paradoxlost, I too damn near fell out of my chair laughing about the "commercial entity" line. ROFLMAO
I've been using Decal since 2002. Due to some physical limitations, there are plug-ins that really help me a lot but I can, and do, in instances such as this, play the game without Decal. In all the time I've been using Decal, without fail, every month, the Devs always say something to the effect that the Memlocs "Are mostly untested", etc... I recall a few times when the wait for an update was longer than this month (what was it that one time? when Decal pretty much had to be re-written? 2 months?). Never during that time have I seen the bitching and whining like this month. I guess there's a whole new breed of youngsters joining that game who believe that they are owed something. Which is really retarded when applied to this situation. Decal is provided and maintained for free. This month and every month, for many years past, and hopefully for many years to come. Yet, this particular 'consumer' feels the need to disrespect the developers and show no appreciation at all. Unreal... I really wish there was a way to ban certain people from using Decal (I wonder who would be at the top of the list)...
I really hope this attitude can be attributed to age and that it will be out-grown in a few years. Otherwise, this guy/girl is going to have some serious issues in his/her life.
And... Paradoxlost did not need to come here and justify the delay to this moron, or any else for that matter. Those of us who have been around for a while know and understand about delays such as this.
Thank you to all of the Decal developers for your continued support. I, like many, really do appreciate it. 
-----signature-----
Arggash - level 275 Tank/3 School/Bow
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David_the_Bear
Title: King of Bears
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Like many of the posters on this thread have mentioned, AC is playable WITHOUT Decal. I too am one of them. I was on DI like always and did pretty good without it.
Does this mean I want to play without Decal at all? Heck no!!! Like others have stated, it does take out the tedium that is built into AC.
It is nice that we have Decal and are able to start our buffs, get up from the chair, take a bio break, get another diet coke and have our toons ready for another 2-3 hours
Decal Devs, thank you
DtB
-----signature-----
The more people I meet, the more I like my cat Retired-Lvl 251 Battle Dagger/Sword Bear, Bunny Master  Retired-David the UA Bear-Lvl 250-Queen Slayer Retired- Lvl 275-David the Mage Bear-David's Rare Bear Lvl 275/Died 887 Last Mage Death Coun
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Strikefast
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Competing product is the one that made me chuckle. Him and 1000 of his friends couldn't make a competing product.
Commercial entity was good but him being a consumer really tickled me.
What exactly are you consuming sir? It's free and on the internet.
OH yeah and where are the "Here have some cheese with that whine" posts. it's why I made the domain name http://www.cheesymail.com
-----signature-----
The Original "Black Sheep Squad" – Formed 2000
Everyone else is just pretending.
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jaclin_ff
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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I say everyone that is whining like a little school girl (Some of you might be little school girls anyways) should just go off and create there own version of decal and plugins. Nothing is stopping you from doing so, is it?! Well maybe the fact that you probably have no idea where to start or what to do, but come on... can't be that hard to create a framework from scratch and plugins now could it?
BTW Thanks to all who has ever worked on decal or a plugin and the work they do. MOST ALL OF US appreciate the hard work and ignore the rest! :-)
-----signature-----
Jaclin 218 Tanking/Item only/Grenading Bunny Mastering Archer - The Dragon Moon Clan http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=24691&TabID=222938 Always a member of the Legion of Hope and the Watch AC Wiki http://www.asheron.info
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Majielle
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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-paradoxlost- posted:
i never acknowledged they were incomplete or buggy. i simply stated that they were untested, as is stated every month. and when did we become a commercial franchise? that actually made me laugh! for the record, the patch process is almost completely automated, this one just caught a LOT of us AFK (1 moving, 1 on vacation, 1 started a new job, etc). besides, making decal open source wouldn't help the patch process at all, since we'd never make the signatures generally available.
All I can add to this is, GREAT JOB Decal Devs and THANK YOU.
-----signature-----
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
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Majielle - VT
Maji Elle - Frostfell
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Pre-ToD Decal IS open source. If you really want to create your own system, use that. It would make a great starting point, and it is certainly applicable enough to ToD that anyone capable of rewriting from scratch would find it very useful. Rewriting Decal is a really fun project, and it can be done (and has, at least in limited fashions). If you really have the skill and dedication you claim, DO it. Talk is cheap.
By the way, where are your public plugins provided for free for the good of the community?
-----signature-----
Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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jaclin_ff
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Virindi-Inquisitor posted:
By the way, where are your public plugins provided for free for the good of the community?
SNAP! Nice response VI...
so I guess Mr/Ms Arc of DT won't respond since he/she is busy rewriting decal!
-----signature-----
Jaclin 218 Tanking/Item only/Grenading Bunny Mastering Archer - The Dragon Moon Clan http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=24691&TabID=222938 Always a member of the Legion of Hope and the Watch AC Wiki http://www.asheron.info
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Xnumt
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Decal needs to be open source
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I don't see why is is duch a sin to have Decal open source.
Two previous versions were, why not this one?
In fact, what about this version makes it such a state secret that it not be?
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Chef_Wubbie
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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Because its not.
A bunch of whining because people didn't have use of the free tool for about 36 hours, this does not mean you can stomp your foot and demand they let go of all of their work to make you happy.
Let me just explain a few things, yet again.
- Decal if improperly used can HARM THE GAME.
- Decal in the hands of an asshat, you know the kind of person who complains when its not on their schedule, can be used in such a way to get Decal made a TOS violation for the game.
- Decal in its current form, shares very little - other than name and function, with its predecessors. The code is very different.
Of all of the people making these demands that they could find the memlocs, they can run Decal better, etc etc etc...
1 - None of them have written a publicly available plugin.
2 - Are such elite programmers, who have never bothered to actually get involved with Decal before this event. And now that Decal is working have shut up and vanished.
3 - Seem to think the universe revolves around them, this is the fault of their parents telling them they are special. They are infact NOT SPECIAL. They are not the center of the universe. They are a unique person, like every other person on the planet but no one will do their bidding just because they want it. For that you have to pay other people to carry out your orders.
4 - Have no grasp of the actual amount of time the current (Post-TOD) Decal Devs have devoted (FREE OF CHARGE) to make this tool available to the people playing this game.
5 - Look at an out of date website and scream how Decal is going to burn and we will have nothing.
6 - Have no idea how pissed off they are making the Decal Devs. Decal works on their goodwill towards the community. You have burned most of it up. Would you keep doing something that gets you screamed at, told your incompetent, and demands made for you to hand over all of your hard work to some snot nosed idiot?
7 - Have no idea what it used to take much longer to get memlocs after patch.
8 - No idea how decal works, they just expect it to.
Before yet another one of these "set Decal Free" types posts...
- Go turn off Decal, and Uninstall it.
- Go play the game. Its hard for you now isn't it?
- Now imagine, if your small brain can still do so, what it would be like if you could not just go reinstall Decal again.
I'm not a Decal Dev, I do not speak for the Decal Devs, But I understand how human nature works.
I understand if you manage to piss the Decal Devs off enough, they will take their ball and go home.
And when these so called "I could do it better types" can't deliver a proof of concept Decal replacement in a month, remember that it is 100% YOUR FAULT.
The Decal Devs would say something much more diplomatic, they have a much longer fuse than I do. They have had to deal with an amazing amount of stupid for much longer than I would be able to.
So in short, DIAF.
Decal will remain right where it is, in the trustworthy hands we have all come to take for granted. I'm sure most of us have never said it enough, but Thank You Decal Devs and Plugin Writers. You deliver an amazing set of tools in the face of so many... well tools. Your work and effort is appreciated, even if a majority do not always remember to express it. I'm sorry the ones so vocal are the ones least deserving of your efforts.
wubbie - Decal - Its a privilege, not a right.
-----signature-----
WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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ndmobeer
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Decal needs to be open source
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Hear Hear to Wubbie
3 cheers to the dev team....
I actually enjoyed the no decal for awhile... makes you APPRECIATE it more when you have it.
-----signature-----
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Xnumt
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Decal needs to be open source
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Man Wubbie, you seem very angry.
I cannot disagree that the Decal Development team has done a very good job in their creation and support.
Asking for them to release the code because, as you yourself have pointed out, they are real people with real lives (that we can presume are more important then a game), does not undermine that appreciation.
What it could do though is improve that support. Possible improve the tool, and make the community feel like people who still have a vested interest are participating in the conversation if not the support.
My issue with Decal being closed is that this means a small group of people, who do not play the game (or if they do, they play little), and did not originally create the tool, have a monopoly on the community. If they made it for the community, why so much secrecy? The previous development team (when AC had a much larger population and many more people with questionable motives), did not think that was necessary. And if they choose to take the ball and go home I say do it now. I think that the leaving of the current development team would inspire new blood to pick up where others have left off, or kill AC, either way they (the decal deployment team) gets what they want. Time to live their lives and are no longer beholden to a community that according Chef_Wubbie, does not appreciate them and demand too much of them.
And fear mongering "Decal can be dangerous" is nonsense. Everything you download can be dangerous. If you don't vet where you get something, you will likely get infected. If a player, or group of players violate the TOS, they do so. You don’t need Decal, or anything else to do that. I am not going to believe that Turbine is going to assume that if one (or a small group of) foolish person(s) do something they will ban Decal. Therefore these arguments are not applicable. Because if that were true, then in all the years when the code was open it would have already happened.
The current development team does not have to let go of their hard work. But I don't agree that it benefits the whole of the community that they try and keep it locked up.
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Drakier
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Decal needs to be open source
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I am sorry I have a life and had to move across a few states and was only able to get functional internet today (a week or so after I lost my last internet connection).
Normally I am on top of it, but it happened this month that the patch happened to coincide with my move date. *shrug* Such is life.
It is not the end of the world. There is no major drama behind the delay in memlocs. I'm normally the one that updates them, and I had no access to do so. There are only a couple of people with access to the website to post them. As paradox said before, I was moving, another was on vacation, and another had just started a new job and didn't have time. That pretty much covers the people who have access to the site to post the files.
If you want to create your own Decal, be my guest. No one is stopping you from doing it (yet). We are not going to open the source, or take on volunteers randomly. If you REALLY want to participate, then show us. Do something to get yourself noticed as a GOOD force for Decal. So far, many people here have done absolutely nothing to convince me you'd ever be a member of the Decal Dev team.
Take a chill pill. Realize that some people have other things going on and might be prevented from doing things like Memlocs. The world will not end because you have to wait a few days for memlocs.
*sigh*
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Chef_Wubbie
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Subject:
Decal needs to be open source
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I am angry.
I am angry at a small group of people who think they are entitled to make unreasonable demands.
I am angry at the stupid children who were cranky the memlocs were not available when they wanted them.
I am angry at all of these people who say they can do it better, who have done NOTHING to support Decal.
I am angry that this is still an issue days later.
Up until this last set of memlocs, no one said boo about anything. Now it seems its open season for people to say how it could be better. You talk about their support, they supported the product. Just not as fast as some asshats would have liked. Let me clear right now, this is all about a small vocal group of people bitching because Decal did not work when they wanted it to. Then they took their tinfoil hats and tried to turn it into ZOMG they aren't supporting the program any more. And because someone said it on the internet, it must be true.
What whole community are you speaking of? The entitled brats who screamed it was the end of the world, and how much they sucked for not having the memlocs fast enough? The elite programmers who know so much they can't be bothered to do anything beyond say they can get the memlocs faster? A majority of the players were unhappy the memlocs were not done, but they knew they would be soon enough. They didn't feel they should take it to the boards and spawn tons of threads making demands and conspiracy theories about Decals demise. No the community in general does not demand to much, its the long list of very recent demands being made solely because memlocs were not posted within 4 hours of patch. This is only an issue because they didn't get what they wanted when they wanted it. This was not a Decal issue, this is an issue of impatient self centered whiners.
Decal can be dangerous to the game, I never implied spyware or malware. Example - there was a way to ID items, it overwhelmed the servers. So this method was blocked. Someone who wants to cut corners would just use the ability who cares if it impacts others in a bad way. I know bits and pieces, because I am neither programmer nor Decal Dev. But I trust the current team more than any of the other people who posted complaining and predicting the end of Decal.
I think its cute you imply the Devs don't play any more.
Can you name the current team?
Can you name their home worlds?
Then how can you imply they no longer play or do not play enough?
How much do they have to play to satisfy you that its enough so they can keep programming Decal? Why do they have to live up to your standard?
If you want an open source Decal alternative, start writing it. I'm sure all of these people who can do it better will line right up.
The Decal team is always looking for new blood, the problem is this new blood you want to see added can't be bothered to earn a seat, they expected it to be handed to them on a silver platter. Yes its very unfair of them, they make sure people who want to join the team might actually be qualified before handing them the keys to the kingdom.
This current version of Decal is not the Decal of old, it was rewritten. Did you miss this part? They kept the name and idea but they had to start over with TOD.
Its impressive how you imply they no longer have a vested interest in Decal. Last I looked, the memlocs were up... not because people screamed for them, but because that is what the team does after a patch. It took a bit longer than "normal" but it was done. Seems like they are still interested in Decal.... They posted the memlocs, they posted in unreasonable demand threads, they are still working on it... yeah so no interest...
wubbie - have you figured out yet, in the current environment you really don't have a leg to stand on?
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Ozzie-SOL
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"""because I am neither programmer nor Decal Dev"""
So this |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| needs to be this |---|. Jesus H Christ you angry fanbois rant and rave fill up the pages ...shut UP for goodness sakes. You don't know dick about jack, except your ALL CAPS OPINION. JFC shut up shut up shut up. Let the people wronged respond. maybe the decal devs should sell subscriptions? I'd pay within reason.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
6 - Have no idea how pissed off they are making the Decal Devs. Decal works on their goodwill towards the community. You have burned most of it up. Would you keep doing something that gets you screamed at, told your incompetent, and demands made for you to hand over all of your hard work to some snot nosed idiot?
Sorry Wubbie, but you're the most pissed off person here :P
Don't worry about it, I don't think anyone takes this drama seriously. Personally I try to avoid drama in life...usually it is something of your own making anyhow.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Xnumt
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You’re correct Wubbie, my comments about the Decal development team not being vested, and not playing were set upon hearsay. The purpose was not serious though, it was hyperbole for your benefit. You seem to have taken it and run with it.
And while I appreciate Decals development team members response, but you play an MMO and write tools for its benefit, you should know better about having a life
I don’t mean anything I say to be an attack, or be insulting. Maybe this thread is to heated to continue with kind of request. I will cede this string to Wubbie. He seems very passionate about this subject.
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Jeez everyone, chill.
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CyranosCottage
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There used to be other 3rd party programs that didn't require Decal... People could start doing those again if they feel the need to find an alternative to decal or any possible wait times during patch days.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Ozzie - KMA KTksBai. Skimming what I wrote must have made you imagine the ALL CAPS. Reading, its fundamental, you really should learn how.
VI - Your prolly right, I'm annoyed at the new level of stupid of a few vocal idiots. But I've seen my fair share of Devs who have moved on from Decal and plugins. One of the biggest contributing factors is the stupid. So I'll try to stop playing with the trolls, they smell like the underside of bridges anyhow.
X - So your a troll. K got you flagged as such now. Grats on trolling me, a whole +1 to your epeen.
Churi-ya - I've not threatened to climb a bell tower and start shooting yet, so I'm still pretty chill, I just have strong opinions on the subject.
Eh it looks like I got trolled, BFD.
The recent atmosphere prevalent here and in the game is "I'm entitled". I find it disgusting. Sorry if my level of disgust got out of hand, but sometimes you need to hit the stupid ones really hard to get their attention.
wubbie - still waiting to see all these new people step up to help out....
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Strikefast
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When was Decal ever open when it was active code????
The old code is open and you can play to your hearts content.
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MT_Gouru
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The original Decal was open source (GPL I believe, but am not certain). This prevented some Decal Devs from being able to work on it, due to job restrictions.
The Devs decided to make a LESS restrictive license on the original source code, making it Public Domain, no restrictions whatsoever. This source code is still available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/decaldev. As it is public domain, anybody is free to take the code and do whatever they want with it.
Starting with the Public Domain code, we created a new version of Decal that contained all the rework for ToD, and because it was private, non-GPL code, we no longer had Decal developers that were prevented from working on it due to job restrictions. If we were to open this source code now, some of the current developers would no longer be able to touch it. Based on the 'true' support from others as opposed to the 'promised' support of a few vocal people, I believe this would kill Decal.
For continued support, it is best that Decal remain closed source.
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Xnumt
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I obviously cannot comment on the condition of employment some of the developers have with their customers/employers. But not being able to participate in a GPL/GNU project that dose not compete with their employers, and cannot be related to their job, on their own time sounds unusual to me.
I have never had it in any contract I have even seen. There is of course the provision that anything you work on company time is the companies, and therefore their intellectual property, but at home I can craft anything that cannot be used by and does not compete with my company.
I was unaware that was the position we were in. In all the years I have read postings, I had never seen anything to indicate that this was an issue, and therefore did not understand why the source had gone under wraps.
I don’t think anyone would sacrifice current support for an unknown level of support.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Xnumt posted:
But not being able to participate in a GPL/GNU project that dose not compete with their employers, and cannot be related to their job, on their own time sounds unusual to me.
IIRC, it is a condition for any employee of Microsoft.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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OREOSTARS
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
Because its not.
A bunch of whining because people didn't have use of the free tool for about 36 hours, this does not mean you can stomp your foot and demand they let go of all of their work to make you happy.
Let me just explain a few things, yet again.
- Decal if improperly used can HARM THE GAME.
- Decal in the hands of an asshat, you know the kind of person who complains when its not on their schedule, can be used in such a way to get Decal made a TOS violation for the game.
- Decal in its current form, shares very little - other than name and function, with its predecessors. The code is very different.
Of all of the people making these demands that they could find the memlocs, they can run Decal better, etc etc etc...
1 - None of them have written a publicly available plugin.
2 - Are such elite programmers, who have never bothered to actually get involved with Decal before this event. And now that Decal is working have shut up and vanished.
3 - Seem to think the universe revolves around them, this is the fault of their parents telling them they are special. They are infact NOT SPECIAL. They are not the center of the universe. They are a unique person, like every other person on the planet but no one will do their bidding just because they want it. For that you have to pay other people to carry out your orders.
4 - Have no grasp of the actual amount of time the current (Post-TOD) Decal Devs have devoted (FREE OF CHARGE) to make this tool available to the people playing this game.
5 - Look at an out of date website and scream how Decal is going to burn and we will have nothing.
6 - Have no idea how pissed off they are making the Decal Devs. Decal works on their goodwill towards the community. You have burned most of it up. Would you keep doing something that gets you screamed at, told your incompetent, and demands made for you to hand over all of your hard work to some snot nosed idiot?
7 - Have no idea what it used to take much longer to get memlocs after patch.
8 - No idea how decal works, they just expect it to.
Before yet another one of these "set Decal Free" types posts...
- Go turn off Decal, and Uninstall it.
- Go play the game. Its hard for you now isn't it?
- Now imagine, if your small brain can still do so, what it would be like if you could not just go reinstall Decal again.
I'm not a Decal Dev, I do not speak for the Decal Devs, But I understand how human nature works.
I understand if you manage to piss the Decal Devs off enough, they will take their ball and go home.
And when these so called "I could do it better types" can't deliver a proof of concept Decal replacement in a month, remember that it is 100% YOUR FAULT.
The Decal Devs would say something much more diplomatic, they have a much longer fuse than I do. They have had to deal with an amazing amount of stupid for much longer than I would be able to.
So in short, DIAF.
Decal will remain right where it is, in the trustworthy hands we have all come to take for granted. I'm sure most of us have never said it enough, but Thank You Decal Devs and Plugin Writers. You deliver an amazing set of tools in the face of so many... well tools. Your work and effort is appreciated, even if a majority do not always remember to express it. I'm sorry the ones so vocal are the ones least deserving of your efforts.
wubbie - Decal - Its a privilege, not a right.
Decaldevs and plugin developers you mean that have made themselves custom versions of plugins and decal to run and do things that others could only dream of having in their version of the plugins or in decal? I wouldn't even accept it if you tried to tell me otherwise. I have heard and seen some pretty intense plugins and what not.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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OREOSTARS posted:
Decaldevs and plugin developers you mean that have made themselves custom versions of plugins and decal to run and do things that others could only dream of having in their version of the plugins or in decal? I wouldn't even accept it if you tried to tell me otherwise. I have heard and seen some pretty intense plugins and what not.
Plugin developers, sure. It wouldn't surprise me if every plugin developer had unreleased stuff; that is simply the nature of development. If you really want a plugin that does something though, you can always write it yourself. Decal plugin development is relatively easy for anyone skilled in programming.
Custom versions of Decal itself used by Decal developers to gain advantages? No. Most Decal developers don't even play, or play very little (yet they work on Decal anyway).
Bottom line, if you want a plugin that does something, you are free to make one.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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-lino-
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Virindi-Inquisitor posted:
It wouldn't surprise me if every plugin developer had unreleased stuff; that is simply the nature of development.
Certainly true for me, although my plugins are all just small tools, so I don't gain a big advantage of having them for me alone.
Virindi-Inquisitor posted:
If you really want a plugin that does something though, you can always write it yourself. Decal plugin development is relatively easy for anyone skilled in programming.
So true, especially with the "recent* trend to publish source code as well* - especially Digero's code has helped me a lot in the past.
About the original topic of open-sourcing decal itself: a "bad" fork of decal could really screw up a log, so as long as someone keeps it running with the latest AC client I don't see any problem with it being closed source. (And I am really a big fan and advocate of open source)
*: I don't have numbers on this, but it feels like a higher percentage of plugins are open source these days. Of course it could be just that most closed source plugins are dead by now and the absolute number of open source plugins has been rather stable all the time.
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