Afker1
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Did they ever get around to fixing this?
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immortalbob
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i get it also, don't think its been fixed.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Not aware of any solution, several people have posted about this again, but very few people are forthcoming with information that might be useful to find a common thread as to whats wrong. To try and tech a solution when people are unwilling to say what OS, what driver set and other details that might be useful to people who don't have a series 8 to try this with results in not being able to help and being annoyed that your offer of help is ignored.
there was talk that 169.04 beta drivers partially solved the problem.
there isn't much information after that. Turbine said it was now a known issue and they would be working on it, but nothing further was posted in that thread from Turbine about that.
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hggm
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They haven't done anything to fix it yet.
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FyrieWindwalker
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As other's have said, it is not fixed. HOWEVER, the problem does not exist when running the game with wine under Linux. I know that's not an acceptable solution, but that's what I've been doing to play the game. It is important to note that Decal does not run under wine.
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GondorB
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I've got a 8800GT 512, running the 7.15.11.6736 driver (10/19/2007) on Vista, and I don't have any flickering issues.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I was wondering if people with the new 8800GT line were going to have problems or if this was just related to the first generation of 8800s. Gondor, based on your experience, it seems that the 512MB GTs may be immune. Also, I am wondering if it has anything to do with the amount of ram. My 8800GTS has 640. I wonder if the issue doesn't become a problem until after 512MBs of ram. "Flickering" could be a symptom of memory addressing issues.
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Afker1
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http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=48567
That's the link to posts about the problems.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I'm the one who made that post. I encourage that other people post in that thread as well. In nVidia's eyes, it may appear that there is low demand for a fix since no one else is posting in that thread.
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Tao_Roo_Chingon_II
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I just updated to the latest driver. It seems to have fixed it.
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FyrieWindwalker
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No luck here. I just upgraded to the 169.28 betas and the flickering is still there for me  .
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Chef_Wubbie
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Tao how much ram on your vid card?
could it be that simple? That if you have a 512 or lower (i dunno if they exist) you don't get flicker but if you have more memeory you do?
So campers.. if you have a 8800 with or without the problem please post...
1 - Card 8800 Nitrogen Cooled Super Colier X25 (ie be a little specific)...
2 - Memory on the card...
3 - Driver your on...
4 - Do you gots the bug...
wubbie - maybe you can have to long of a memory... address that is...
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Tao_Roo_Chingon_II
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I have an Evga Nvidia 8600 GTS with 512 Mb. I just upgraded to driver 169.28. My OS is Windows XP professional.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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BFG 8800Ultra OC 768mb
Driver 169.21, Windows Server 2003
Yes I do get the bug. However, I think it may be dependent on antialiasing/texture filtering settings. At least, that should be investigated.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I'm getting the bug with the following configuration:
EVGA 8800gts OC - 640 MB Ram
XP 32 SP + Vista Ultimate 32
Nvidia Driver Version: 169.28
FYI: I've tried rolling back to the very first driver that has 8000 series support and the bug was still there.
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Tao_Roo_Chingon_II
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 The flicker is still there. It's just not as prominent. 
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Chef_Wubbie
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VI - where are those settings hidden for AA and stuff and can you set them for just AC?
Does anyone who has this problem play any other game and get a similar result or is is just AC?
Better question are you playing form the CD install of TOD or the Web install of TOD?
The Web install did not include the high res textures and I wonder if the problem only exists if the high res textures are available, as the high res textures were abandoned by Turbine.
so much to ponder.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> VI - where are those settings hidden for AA and stuff and can you set them for just AC?
Not in AC, but using the NVidia control panel you can override per-game antialias settings and enable it.
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FyrieWindwalker
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AC is the only game where I have this problem. Also, although it's possible, I don't think settings have any affect on the problem. I tried doing a lot of tweaking with rivatuner and nothing seemed to fix the problem. I also tried all the settings in AC. Maybe there's a magical setting permutation out there, but individual settings do not seem to fix it from what I can tell.
I am running the downloaded version of ToD. I had no idea that the physical cd had higher rez textures than the web download. I had been told on the official forums that there was no advantage to having the store bought version vs. the digital download.
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Chef_Wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker - thats because they no longer support the high res texture replacement they had started...
I wish I had an 8 series so I coudl see this bug first hand and work on it...
so far the best we had was maybe it had to do with memory management on the card...
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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hggm
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Nvidia doesn't seem too interested in it.
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FyrieWindwalker
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"Nvidia doesn't seem too interested in it."
Nvidia has so many bugs related to backwards compatibility at the moment that chances are they won't look at it unless there is a huge stink raise by the customer base. There is a very lengthy thread on on the Nvidia boards regarding bugs with Thief 2, and it doesn't appear like they are sinking a whole lot of time into that one.
HOWEVER, If Turbine directly works with NVidia to grease the wheel, it may have a chance of getting fixed or sorted out whether the bug is ultimately a driver fix or an AC fix. From what Frelorn has said, it does sound like they have been working with Nvidia... but sheesh, how long does it take for a fix? It's been known issue for over a year.
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Chef_Wubbie
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We aren't WoW...
While AC is very enjoyable for a few people we just don't have the playerbase that makes Nvidia sit up and take notice.
If their driver wasn't working for CNC3, Crysis, WoW, or the newest latest greatest hot game, they would be on it in a heart beat. AC as an older game isn't really a priority, and Turbine being involved can only do so much to move the monolith that is Nvidia to fix a problem. More helpful might be posting about how Nvidia abandons their customers with multi-hundred dollar cards and never offers any support for what they broke. Or posts from people saying how they are now using a "lesser" card from ATI because at least it works and ATI fixes the bugs that pop up. Posts suggesting that if you enjoy playing older PC games that avoiding the entire 8 series of cards is a good idea because Nvidia does nothing to make sure they contiune to support anything but the newest greatest games. I find it funny that someone without an 8 series card has offered more ideas of things to try than someone who is paid by Nvidia.
Sadly unless we can figure out some sort of workaround for the bug here on the boards, nothing is going to make it better.
Besides if we can find the right settings, conditions, voodoo doll pin arrangement that fixes the problem, we've done all of the ground work to maybe get Nvidia to look at X portion of their driver code and then rather than 1 needle in a very large haystack its a more precise location they can attempt to repair.
Has anyone managed to create a per-game setting for Asheron's Call and played with the buttons yet?
wubbie -
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Chef_Wubbie
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Question - Have any of you ever run one of the registry cleaning programs that exist to remove old drivers?
I recently upgraded the drivers for one of the video cards at work and it had all sorts of odd weird things going on afterwards... so I found one of the cleaners and ran it after uninstalling all the drivers and then installed the new driver and everything was much happier...
wubbie - YMMV
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
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FyrieWindwalker
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Cleaning your reg is good advice, but this has been confirmed on OS/clean installs. In one of the threads over at turbine, a user reinstalled from scratch and the problem was still there.
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GengisCon
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Turbine posted on tech forum that this is a known bug with no resolution and no timeline for a fix. Once again, we got the "we'll let you know when something changes" answer.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Turbine posted on tech forum that this is a known bug with no resolution and no timeline for a fix. Once again, we got the "we'll let you know when something changes" answer.
And how would propose Turbine, a game company, fix a problem with a hardware vendors problem?
This is not every Nvidia card.
Its not even every 8 series card.
So tell me how the heck is Turbine supposed to make it better?
Turbine has addressed the issue as best that can with the players, have spoken with Nvidia to try to get a good result. What are they supposed to do?
Turbine can be amazing stupid sometimes, but this is not one of those times.
wubbie - boggle
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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As I posted in that forum, I'm unsubbing until it's fixed. Yah, I got the game working without the bug in Linux using WINE, but I decided that maintaining a 2nd OS without the ability to use decal wasn't worth my time or money. Hopefully they'll eventually get it sorted out. If the bug affects the Nvidia 9000 line of cards then AC is doomed if they don't fix it.
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GengisCon
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
And how would propose Turbine, a game company, fix a problem with a hardware vendors problem?
This is not every Nvidia card.
Its not even every 8 series card.
So tell me how the heck is Turbine supposed to make it better?
Turbine has addressed the issue as best that can with the players, have spoken with Nvidia to try to get a good result. What are they supposed to do?
Turbine can be amazing stupid sometimes, but this is not one of those times.
wubbie - boggle
They did not say it was an Nvidia issue, they just said they did not have an update, but that it was a known issue. If it was clearly an Nvidia issue, tell us that, and we'll go to Nvidia for support. My guess though is that Nvidia is only seeing this bug in Asheron's Call, not across the board. Isolate the issue and its probably an AC issue with Nvidia cards. I don't know who's side it falls on in the end, but Turbine can't just walk away from Nvidia cards...
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Endy_The_Unsane
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I have an evga 8800GT 512 and I am using the latest beta drivers and I just did a clean install of XP (because I just did a major upgrade to my computer) and I have yet to notice any problems with it. If there's any information I can give about my setup that might help, let me know.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Endy - what version are the nVidia drivers your using?
GengisCon - Turbine has no reported problems with like 98% of the nvidia cards that play their game. Most people head here and google to find solutions to problems and don't share information about what they learned and if it was made better. So for the tiny amount of people who have the issue - this is a massive problem, but from Nvidias stand point its not an issue because for their overall customer base its a ignorable portion of their user base. Turbine can't replicate this issue simply because of the sheer number of configurations this happens in. Turbine isn't walking away but they can only try so much to get Nvidia to solve this problem, and from reading the LONG list of driver issues in the current Forceware release there is alot of problems with more popular games keeping them busy fixing whats not working on their side and pointing out where the game company needs to do something on their side.
Hell I can't get enough data strung together to even offer more hypothesis about what to try next.
Its hard to fix this problem when people are yelling its broke its broke, ok so tell me what you have.... silence....
I know I had pitched the idea of running one of the driver software package cleanup utilities...
it seems 1 person reported that on a fresh install of xp it still shimmered ... But not still sure what driver version they tried.
What I know...
The problem only appears on some 8800 and 8600 video cards.
The problem seems more common on cards with more than 512 ram onboard.
What I'd like to know...
What releases make it better or worse.
How many of the cards are "overclocked" by the manufacturer beyond the original spec.
Is the shimmer in a specific location all the time or is it in a specific texture/effect?
Is the shimmer there with or without decal?
Is the shimmer always present, develops over x amount of play time?
Forceware 169.21 was released in december... I have no idea what the first set of forceware drivers that supported the 8 series was, It would be nice if there could be a list compiled of all the the 8 series supporting driver releases, and then have them tried by people who have shimmer and say if the problem was there, better or worse etc...
This doesn't even begin to touch on the gaming optimized drivers like the Omega (i think he retired but I am unsure) optimized drivers. If someone could compile the list, then maybe other 8 series users could then lend help by trying them out and reporting what works, whats better whats worse. I suggest finding one of the programs that removes all the traces of the video drivers from the system to make sure nothing hangs around in between trying different versions.
I don't have an 8 series or access to one...all I can do is take information people provide and try to think what the next thing to try is... but I need information to make educated guesses.
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Endy_The_Unsane
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169.28 beta driver
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Endy al-Unsane 275 Sword / Endy al-Unsane III 270 Mage Peerless Endy 275 Mage / Endy Mion 249 Bow Child of the Quiddity 220 Mage / Vorkosigan 220 UA Endy Tinkertide 275 Tinkerer Endy's Tinkering Calculator: http://the-unsane.com/
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Afker1
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Using 169.21 drivers on a 8800 GTS 320 MB.
What releases make it better or worse. (None)
How many of the cards are "overclocked" by the manufacturer beyond the original spec.
(My card isn't overclocked).
Is the shimmer in a specific location all the time or is it in a specific texture/effect?
(Seems to be outdoor textures)
Is the shimmer there with or without decal?
(Decal doesn't make a difference)
Is the shimmer always present, develops over x amount of play time?
(Play time doesn't make a difference).
What does make a difference. If I play full screen version with the pack not showing, I don't get the flicker. If I play in the smaller screen version with the pack on the right hand side outdoors then it's going to flicker and often. It seems like it has something to do with the sky textures in the game because I don't get this anywhere else and I don't have this problem with any other game.
I don't think you should call the problem minimal. A lot of people just unsub from the game rather than trying to fix the issue and as the cards drop in price there will be even more issues if this continues.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Afker - I do not claim its a minimal problem, what I am saying is that to Nvidia its a minimal problem. There are X millions of Nvidia chipset users. Of that there are maybe a couple thousand who play Asheron's Call. Of that there are maybe a couple dozen who have this issue. Its a minimal problem to Nvidia, they are not that concerned about 50 people who have a small graphics glitch in 1 game. Put this "shimmer" in WoW and have it affect a couple 1000 players, Nvidia would take notice. I've seen screen shots of the "shimmer" and I don't think it makes the game impossible to be played, just distracting and annoying, but I can only know so much from a couple screen shots. It makes me sad that people will unsub and walk away rather than try to get help or try new things. You can only scream at Turbine so much, they brought the issue up with Nvidia. Nvidia isn't doing much, or at least not responding to people. You are left to fend for yourselves, and I've tried to help as much as I can but I can only do so much with the data I have so far.
Thank you for the information about your card thou. 320MB is another odd number and gives me more pause that it might have something to do with memory addressing. I saw in the build notes for the newest drivers that Nvidia added support for I think an 8800 something with 512 memory... So I am wondering if that might offer some solution to the memory questions.
The paper doll being open/closed is also a really good detail I was not entirely aware of.
Okies people with the shimmer, does closing the paperdoll window have an affect for everyone of making the shimmer go away?
This tiny bit of information could be a large key so please try it and let me know. The paperdoll is a different layer being rendered and the shimmer might have something to do with how the 2 edges are interacting with each other. I don't think anyones offered that detail before and if this is infact a major cause of the problem, its something small and simple to focus on and would be of all sorts of use for Turbine/Nvidia to work with. It might even be a DirectX issue because the sky is multiple layers and hitting that edge... So the paperdoll question is very important... please let us know.
This is opening up some ideas in my head of settings to try changing that might offer at least a temporary workaround until it can be fixed by whoever broke it... but I need more info about if the paperdoll being opened is a constant in what makes the shimmer happen.
I doubt players care much who broke it they just want to be able to play and this might be the key to being able to play...
wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker
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What releases make it better or worse.
None. I've rolled back to the very first 8000 series driver and the problem exists there.
How many of the cards are "overclocked" by the manufacturer beyond the original spec.
I do have an OC card from the manufacturer, but I've tried underclocking the card as low as it will go. My base system (proc, ram, fsb. etc...) is running at stock. All other games that I've tried with this rig over the past 6 months or so are running rock solid..
Is the shimmer in a specific location all the time or is it in a specific texture/effect?
I've seen the problem in two places in the game:
- In the sky when looking up at least a little. It will only shimmer in half of the sky, but I've noticed it on both sides of the sky. Having the pack open or closed does not matter. If I am looking more or less straight ahead I don't seem to get it. One thing of interest - often the flicker is between the current time of day and an earlier time of day... meaning I'll see night and twilight flickering back and forth very quickly. However, other times it's just the current texture and garbled textures.
- In dungeons with wall hangings, I've notice that the wall hangings flicker in and out of existance, almost as if the wall texture is being written over the wall hanging. I do not know if it is the exact same bug as the sky, but it is similar. I don't think it's the exact same bug because the flickering sky does not occur when running the game in Linux using WINE, but the wall hanging bug does.
Is the shimmer there with or without decal?
I don't use any plugins or 3rd party apps.
Is the shimmer always present, develops over x amount of play time?
It usually takes at least 30 seconds to a minute before it starts.
IMPORTANT NOTE: The flickering of the sky does not happen when running the game in Linux using WINE. My best guess is that there is a problematic function call in a windows DLL or in the windows Nvidia driver.
Hope that helps!
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - actually it kills part of my thinking  but this is a good thing it keeps me from running down the wrong path some more. But WINE adds a whole different thing to consider. Does WINE use real DirectX and Windows Drivers?
New thought... in the 8 series card nvidia added Transparency Multisampling Antialiasing...
What happens if you switch that down to something lower?
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FyrieWindwalker
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Wine is not a Windows emulator per say, rather it is a set of dlls etc... that intercept windows function calls and translate them into native Linux calls. Direct X is handled this way as well, and they've kept pretty up to date with the latest Direct X functionality through Direct X 9. I believe that out of the box so to speak, Wine has no actual windows code/dlls included. Since it is not an OS emulator, it directly uses the NVidia linux display driver. It would be accurate to say that Wine does not use real Direct X or Windows drivers.
As far as AA goes on windows, it doesn't seem to matter if it's on or off as far as I've been able to tell.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Well Blah...
This is one of those times when I need an 8 series card that does this so I can just keep trying stuff until it works...
Ok how about turning off write combining in windows?
Any affect?
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FyrieWindwalker
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I tried disabling the write combining to no avail. I also systematically tried just about every setting in Riva Tuner. However, since I've unsubbed due to this bug, Someone else might have to step in to try some things.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - I hope that more people step up to the challenge.
If I had a series 8 of my own that was known to have the bug I could spend an hour or less and burn thru all of the possibilities in my head. But as it is now, I have to float the idea and wait for someone to pickup the challenge and try the newest oddball idea.
Newest pitch is how about NGO Optimized Drivers?
These fall in the same realm as the optimized drivers from Omega I mentioned before.
These drivers have been tweaked out for the best performance in games... let me put it this way... if they manage to get another 10 FPS outta Crysis what do you think the odds are it might handle Asheron's Call?
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hggm
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All I know is that this bug has made the game not enjoyable atm. Inevitably, the screen corrupts, I can't make out what is happening, and die. After three or four times a day, its begun to make me hate AC. I don't know how hard it is to fix, or if Turbine is aware of what is causing it why Nvidia just can't fix it.
If there is a work around you all can up with, that would be great. Especially if it did not involve some other OS or buying a new card.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Then you should follow this thread.
I don't have a series 8 card... But I've been building and poking at computers for over half my life. I have all sorts of ideas but without a Series 8 of my own that is known to do the bug I can't say what will and will not work unless someone takes one of my ideas tries it and reports what happens.
Current Idea is - Omega or NGO Optimized drivers. They are modified drivers that are tweaked for better gaming. If they make a FPS a little better they might fix whats wrong in AC.
Someone step up and try this..
Drivers don't void a warranty, shouldn't make it explode in flames, and you can always roll back.
wubbie - frustrated
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Afker1
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Here's my workaround. I got an ATI card and it runs AC like a champ. Going to Ebay my 8800 GTS and it alone will cover about 2/3 of the cost. Also, the ATI card runs about 50% cooler. My room temp has dropped 10 to 15 degrees
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FyrieWindwalker
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Current Idea is - Omega or NGO Optimized drivers. They are modified drivers that are tweaked for better gaming. If they make a FPS a little better they might fix whats wrong in AC.
wubbie - frustrated
Ok... I'll bite
Link me to these drivers. I'll reinstate my account.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I've tested the following drivers to no avail:
NVidia 171.23_beta_WinXP_32bit-[Guru3D.com]
nvidia_omega_xp2k_216921.exe
nvodngov116369.exe (tried both regular and compatibility install)
I also tried disabling combined writes, lowered acceleration to the lowest you can go and still have D3D accelerations, and I tried forced disabling of AA through the nvcontrol panel.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - what happens when you turn off let the application decide for all the cool settings in the control panel...
Antialiasing, Anisotropic.. etc etc Lets see if this happens when all the settings are taken to the lowest and forced to be that way... Lets focus on 1 portion at a time. So lets reset the DirectX/Windows settings to their "default" position and focus on all the bells and whistles in the Nvidia Control Panel. I am doing this looking at the old fashioned one I run for my 6600's v93.71, yeah I know they are not the newest bestest ones but they work for me.
HURM... Classic NVIDIA Control Panel The user interface you are using right now. This interface is provided for legacy purposes only. All new features and enhancements are only applied to the new Nvidia Control Panel.
So what if we build one for acclient.exe and set everything to lowest or off and see...
If and thats a big if this finds the "shimmer" then it might be possible to locate the 1 or 2 offending settings and then make settings that keep the shimmer at bay for now.
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=2
this is a list of all of the modified drivers they offer... wow thats alot...
bit i scavenged form their boards - "I have the 8800 gts 512, any drivers after and including the 169.21 has broken AA profiles. I'm using the 169.17 Beta which has FSAA profiles working. It doesn't support the 8800 gts 512 so you have to edit the inf to get it working."
I know this is a little jumbled, but I am high on cold medicince so alot of this is free form outta my brain I hope you can piece togeteher what I am saying...
But if its AA thats sporked in the newer drivers... then changing the setting wouldn;t matter... and if it was using the wrong stuff it might make things behave badly...
wubbie - i think i need more medicine...
editied bit...
Has anyone considered posting on 3dgurus and risking the noob flames to see what they think the problem might be?
I mean some of these people edit the drivers on code level, they might have better ideas than me... they might at least give an idea what settings might help in making it stop. I'd do it but I'm high on cold medicine and I can't do justice to the problem... but someone who has the problem and screen shots could probably get help...
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FyrieWindwalker
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Looking through the Guru 3d driver archive, 97.94 was the first official 8800 driver, however I was able to install 96.89, but nothing earlier than that. Therefore I am using
96.89 as the base. The bug does exist in 96.89.
Here is the baseline/default settings:
_Anistropic Filtering_
<Use global setting (application-controlled)>
Application Controlled
Off
2x
4x
8x
16x
_Antialiasing - Gamma correction_
<Use global setting (on)>
Off
On
_Antialiasing Mode_
<Use Global Setting (on)>
Application Controlled
Off
Enhance Application Setting
Override Application Setting
_Antialiasing Setting *Only Avail Depending on Above*_
<Use global setting (application-controlled)>
2x
4x
8x
8xq
16x
16xq
_Antialiasing - Transparency_
<Use Global Setting (off)>
Off
Multisampling
Supersampling
_Conformant Texture Clamp_
<Use Global Setting (Use Hardware)>
Off
Use OpenGL Specification
Use Hardware
_Error Reporting_
<Use Global Setting (Off)>
Off
On
_Extension Limit_
<Use Global Setting (Off)>
Off
On
_Force Mipmaps_
<Use Global Setting (none)>
None
Bilinear
Trilinear
_Multi-Diplay/mixed-GPU Acceleration_
<Use Global Setting (Multiple Display Performance)>
Single Display Performance Mode
Compatability Performance Mode
Multiple Display Performance Mode
_Texture Filtering - Anistropic Sample Optimization_
<Use Global setting (off)>
Off
On
_Texture Filtering - Negative LOD Bias_
<Use Global Setting (Allow)
Allow
Clamp
_Texture Filtering - Quality_
<Use Global Setting (Quality)>
High Quality
Quality
Performance
High Performance
_Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization_
<Use Global Setting On>
Off
On
_Threaded Optimization_
<Use Global Setting (Auto)>
Auto
Off
On
_Triple Buffering_
<Use Global Setting (On)>
Off
On
_Verticle Sync_
<Use Global Settings (Use 3d application settings)>
Use 3d Application Setting
Off
On
I have indicated the default selected settings by placing < > around the setting. I will try your suggestion of letting the application control everything that it can and turn everything else off. If you can think of specific settings based off of the above template, please let me know.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I may have something....
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Chef_Wubbie
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cooookie?
Fyrie - my original thought i think was to set everything to the "lowest" setting and then see if the bug was till there.
The gradually increase the settings until we foudn the trigger, hoping that its just 1 thing.
so whctah find
hurm hurm hurm??
did you find something that fixed it and now are playing away forgetting to let everyone else know how to fix this?
hurmmmmmmmmmmm?
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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Sorry.. False alarm. One of the annoying things about this bug is that even though on my system it usually surfaces within a minute of playing, on rare occasions it will take up to 15-20 minutes or so. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it takes longer to show up as it doesn't only happen when I try new settings.
Here is my current configuration:
Driver Version: 96.89 (97.02 is the first 8800 driver, but 96.89 is the oldest one that will actually install that I've found).
Settings:
_Anistropic Filtering_
Use global setting (application-controlled)
<Application Controlled>
Off
2x
4x
8x
16x
_Antialiasing - Gamma correction_
Use global setting (on)
<Off>
On
_Antialiasing Mode_
Use Global Setting (on)
<Application Controlled>
Off
Enhance Application Setting
Override Application Setting
_Antialiasing Setting *Only Avail Depending on Above*_
<Use global setting (application-controlled)>
2x
4x
8x
8xq
16x
16xq
_Antialiasing - Transparency_
Use Global Setting (off)
<Off>
Multisampling
Supersampling
_Conformant Texture Clamp_
Use Global Setting (Use Hardware)
<Off>
Use OpenGL Specification
Use Hardware
_Error Reporting_
Use Global Setting (Off)
<Off>
On
_Extension Limit_
Use Global Setting (Off)
<Off>
On
_Force Mipmaps_
Use Global Setting (none)
<None>
Bilinear
Trilinear
_Multi-Diplay/mixed-GPU Acceleration_
Use Global Setting (Multiple Display Performance)
Single Display Performance Mode
<Compatability Performance Mode>
Multiple Display Performance Mode
_Texture Filtering - Anistropic Sample Optimization_
Use Global setting (off)
<Off>
On
_Texture Filtering - Negative LOD Bias_
Use Global Setting (Allow)
Allow
<Clamp>
_Texture Filtering - Quality_
Use Global Setting (Quality)
High Quality
Quality
Performance
<High Performance>
_Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization_
Use Global Setting On
<Off>
On
_Threaded Optimization_
Use Global Setting (Auto)
Auto
<Off>
On
_Triple Buffering_
Use Global Setting (On)
<Off>
On
_Verticle Sync_
<Use Global Settings (Use 3d application settings)>
Use 3d Application Setting
Off
On
There was something new that I noticed about the bug. As noted earilier, sometimes it flickers to white and sometimes it flicker to another sky texture. I did notice last night that when I was getting flickering to a cloudy sky texture, the texture seemed to be skewed the wrong direction. Also at one point at night the sky was the standard black sky with stars. I started to get flickering with red and green, then BAM, the Aurora Borealis overlay effect suddenly displayed across the whole sky (as I'm guessing it should have been doing before the flickering).
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - Have you considered the long slow annoying process of setting everything to the lowest setting rather than application controlled? And then keep working them up and see if the bugs there or not?
Trial and error is the only option left to us to try currently.
Still have hope someone will post their screen shots on guru3d and ask them if they have any input.
The fact it happens mainly on 88 series and some 86 series and alot of the gurus use them means a better pool of people who might have similar experiences. The fact they can get the free trial of AC and try to see if first hand would be helpful as well.
I'm still over medicated so not come up with any new thoughts as of yet...
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FyrieWindwalker
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I just tried again with everything that has an "off" value set to off. There are a few that don't have an off, so it's difficult to know which value to use for those settings. I could go down the route of trying each of the values on those settings.
If anything, I feel confident that we've proven that this bug existed in the very first publicly available driver. I also got some good screen shots of the texture being skewed rather than flickering to white .
http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p193/dauger75/Asherons%20Call/8800%20Texture%20Bug/
I will try to start a thread on Guru3d sometime today or tomorrow.
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FyrieWindwalker
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Here is the Guru3d Thread:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2605401#post2605401
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - YAY... and I apologize for the amount of douche's it seems you will have to encounter. I do hold out hope that since your smarter than the average "I press buttons LTX NO WORK FIX IT!" poster and you follow up questions and comments that hopefully one of the guru's will stop meditation and trying to levitate long enough to post a solution or new set of ideas.
Having to go thru the settings step by step and stepping them up one at a time is something I wish on no one, but it seems it is the only path left to try.
BFG Tech BFGE85256GTE GeForce 8500GT 256MB PCIe Video Card $29.99AR Free Shipping
http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/112545
I just saw this in my rss feed in gmail... I get no kickback or nuffin, just sharing info...
I hate to say that it might be the final solution... cards outside of the 86 88 series range.
Is there anyone out there with a 9 series card? Does it do it?
Or is this just something specific to the 88 and some 86 series cards?
wubbie - busily hacking up both his lungs to clean out all the crud from this cold
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GondorB
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"...Or is this just something specific to the 88 and some 86 series cards?"
Don't forget, the problem apparently doesn't exist in the 8800GT 512, as I and others who've posted (on this thread or others) aren't having issues with this card & AC.
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you guys tried tinkering around with the more advanced settings?
Maybe download RivaTuner and tinker around? http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=163
I don't play AC anymore but I do notice odd issues with the 8800GT I own in older games as well... Nba live 99 has some missing graphics also with 8800gt but my older 7600GT card had no problems with.
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FyrieWindwalker
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Riva Tuner is a good suggestion. I did try messing around with it quite a bit to no avail.
As far as the 9000 cards go, I haven't heard a yea or nay from anyone on AC compatibility.
I have been toying with the idea of getting another lower priced card to play the game. I need something that can handle 1680x 1050 without choking. I'm starting to think that if I do get a 2nd card, it should be an ATI so I can have my compatibility bases covered for older games. Hardware profiles make having two different video cards in a windows system easy to deal with since you can create a profile that only has one of the cards running. I do like to tinker with Linux quite a bit and I'm not sure how I'd handle the situation there.
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Chef_Wubbie
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I won't mention that ATI cards did result in a plugin called let there be light being created and now worked into the game. They tended to run a bit dark, but a little dark vs screwy sky...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series
Trying to find the differences...
GeForce 8600 GT 256
GeForce 8600 GT 512
GeForce 8600 GTS 256
GeForce 8600 GTS 512
GeForce 8800 GTS 320
GeForce 8800 GTS 640 - Bugged - Fyrie
GeForce 8800 GS 384
GeForce 8800 GS 768
GeForce 8800 GT 256
GeForce 8800 GT 512 - No Bug Reports - GondorB & Others.
GeForce 8800 GT 1024
GeForce 8800 GTS 512
GeForce 8800 GTX 768
GeForce 8800 Ultra 786
Lets mark up the bugged and the not bugged.
wubbie
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Chef_Wubbie
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BAH I was tweaking and time ran out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series
Trying to find the differences...
GeForce 8600 GT 256
GeForce 8600 GT 512
GeForce 8600 GTS 256
GeForce 8600 GTS 512 - Bugged - Tao
GeForce 8800 GTS 320 - Bugged - Afker
GeForce 8800 GTS 640 - Bugged - Fyrie
GeForce 8800 GS 384
GeForce 8800 GS 768
GeForce 8800 GT 256
GeForce 8800 GT 512 - No Bug - GondorB & Others.
GeForce 8800 GT 1024
GeForce 8800 GTS 512
GeForce 8800 GTX 768
GeForce 8800 Ultra 786 - Bugged - VI
Lets mark up the bugged and the not bugged.
There might be something to release dates or how it was made etc... something we aren't seeing tying them all together.
I found something "intresting"
On April 17th, 2007, NVIDIA released the GeForce 8500 GT, 8600 GT, and 8600 GTS for the mainstream market. The two series also introduces the PureVideo 2 MPEG2 decoder, which added accelerated decoding for VC-1 and H264.
The 8800 GT, unlike other 8800 cards, is equipped with the PureVideo 2 engine for GPU assisted decoding of the H.264 and VC-1 codecs.
decoder cards - bug
engine card - no bug
coincidence?
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FyrieWindwalker
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Reports of an 8600 GT with the problem although the poster doesn't report the specific model
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showpost.php?p=386853&postcount=46
GTX Here:
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=32843
Altho - interesting to note, the poster says it happens after a couple HOURS.
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Egads there is so much information scattered everywhere...
its making my head hurt.
GS GT GTS(512) are the only 65nm chips
The times when the cards were released starts to show a trend but I can't focus on it...
I'm hitting a wall here.
List reordered by release date...
GeForce 8800 GTX 768 - Bug after "hours"
GeForce 8800 GTS 320 - Bugged - Afker
GeForce 8800 GTS 640 - Bugged - Fyrie
GeForce 8600 GT 256 - Bugged?
GeForce 8600 GT 512 - Bugged?
GeForce 8600 GTS 256 - Betting on Bugged
GeForce 8600 GTS 512 - Bugged - Tao
GeForce 8800 Ultra 786 - Bugged - VI
GeForce 8800 GT 256 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GT 512 - No Bug - GondorB & Others.
GeForce 8800 GT 1024 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GTS 512 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 384 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 768 - Betting No Bug
Yeah I see a pattern...
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TigerBlue1986
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I can confirm that the XFX 8600GT is also bugged and I have tried installing old drivers and changing options in the nVidia control panel which didn't do jack. All these years and when I finally get a card with good performance at high resolutions it ends us being buggy...typical.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Tiger - how much ram on the card? it doesn't matter alot just for the sake of my build list which we should prolly post on the Turbine boards and let people know not to bother trying to play AC with these cards? Look earlier in the thread... I posted a 8500 that I saw on sale on the interwebs was like 30AR... and with the new cheat sheet I have we can semi safely recommended which 8 series you can buy and not get screwed.
but I think what we have here is anything using the older sized gpu is gonna fail, the question is can we find a way to make it liveable with minor tweaks and fixes of maybe an extra case fan or slot fan or replacement GPU cooler...
The bug does not appear on the 65nm gpu I am willing to make this bold statement, I think.
This brings us back to some original ideas I've seen discounted in other threads.
What if the cooler isn't enough for the larger gpu?
Fyrie this prolly runs against everything in your soul, but what happens if you point a box fan at your exposed graphics card? Does the card support the "newer" tech of making itself dumber to beat a heat level, I saw this in one of the drivers once and was intrested by it. If its reporting the wrong temp and running to hot... you end up with graphics corrpution sorta like what we see in all the screenies. Lets assume the "evil" cards always report the wrong temp, what happens when you find a way to make the temp become lower or lower the tolerance in the driver.
Mind you a new GPU cooler isn't suggested for everyone but you can get a decent one for alot less than a new video card, and if I am right about the temp being to high you'll actually be saving yourself the hassle of your card eating itself over time from running to hot to long. So Fyrie my faithful guinea pig... we await your report
I was reading some other stuff about it not working in some "older" slots etc... that will be the next course of exploration if this proves to be wrong, but I has a feeling about this.
wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker
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If you think it's heat related, I'll admit I'm extremely skeptical. As I wrote in the guru 3d post I've clocked the card down to GPU Core @ 144 MHz /GPU Mem @ 209 MHz. Playing AC in an 800x600 window I saw the bug. The card was at 49c.
As I sit here and type with my card at stock values, the card is running at 64c.
However, I will do as you ask and report back. 
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TigerBlue1986
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Ah sorry my card has 256 MB of memory. I also doubt that it's a heating problem as my card has a quite a large Zalman fan on it (though it is overclocked by default!).
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?XFX-86GTXZ
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FyrieWindwalker
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I just opened my case and pointed a Holmes "Blizzard" fan at my card. I underclocked the card down to the minimum. I managed to get the core down to 43c, but the flickering was still there playing in an 800x600 window. Also for what it's worth, my Linux install is reporting roughly the same temps when idle and when playing. Under linux the card tends to hover around 70c while I'm playing without issue.
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Chef_Wubbie
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List reordered by release date note the spiffy break between bugged not bugged...
GeForce 8800 GTX 768 - Bug after "hours"
GeForce 8800 GTS 320 - Bugged - Afker
GeForce 8800 GTS 640 - Bugged - Fyrie
GeForce 8600 GT 256 - Bugged - Tigerblue
GeForce 8600 GT 512 - Bugged?
GeForce 8600 GTS 256 - Betting on Bugged not 65nm
GeForce 8600 GTS 512 - Bugged - Tao
GeForce 8800 Ultra 786 - Bugged - VI
GeForce 8800 GT 256 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GT 512 - No Bug - GondorB & Others.
GeForce 8800 GT 1024 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GTS 512 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 384 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 768 - Betting No Bug
Fyrie - Well it was an idea, but the idea of the big fan failing as well as a Zalman fan not being able to do it takes heat back off the table. It was a shot in the dark, but sometimes you need to recover the basics...
Okies here is the dirty part I skimmed... credit to the wikipedia...
"Shortly after the release, an incompatibility issue with older PCI Express 1.0a motherboards was unmasked. When using the PCI Express 2.0 compliant 8800GT in motherboards with PCI Express 1.0a slots, the card would not produce any display image, but the computer would often boot (with the fan spinning at a constant 100%). Some mainboard (Motherboard) chipsets had a workaround, which was to re-flash the graphics card's bios with an older GEN1 BIOS (which effectively made it into a PCI Express 1.0 card, not being able to utilize the PCIE 2.0 functions. but since the card itself could not even utilize the full capacity of the regular PCIE 1.0 slots, there was no noticeable performance reduction). A workaround to this is to flash the BIOS of the motherboard to the latest version. The flashing of the BIOS, however, voided the warranties of most cards thus making it a less-than-optimum way of getting the card to work properly. In relation to this compatibility issue, the high numbers of DOA (Dead On Arrival - cards that are broken out of the box)(As much as 13-15%) were believed to be inaccurate. When it was revealed that the G92 8800GT and 8800GTS 512Mb were going to be designed with PCI Express 2.0 connections, NVIDIA claimed that all cards would have full Backwards-Compatibility, but they completely failed to mentioned that this was only true for PCI Express 1.1 motherboards. The source for the BIOS-flash did not come from NVIDIA or any of their partners, but rather ASRock, a mainboard producer, who mentioned the fix in one of their motherboard FAQ's. ASUSTek, which produces their own versions of the 8800GT, posted a newer version of their 8800GT BIOS on their website, but did not mention that it fixed this issue. As of the date of this article (Dec 26 2007) there has not been any official word on this issue from either NVIDIA or any of their partners."
So we are looking at BIOS on cards and on MB's...
I think we are well out of the elements here.
What we do have however is proof of what cards have this problem for sure and some ideas about why, but no real way to test or repair them I don't think. Getting people to update MB bios's is one thing but video cards bios is a whole area I am scared of.
Rather than posting on Nvidia's boards and such, maybe it will take people finding a single tech support address and bringing all of this up. You paid ALOT for your video cards, and well AC isn't exactly rocket science. You get x amount of support from the company, and maybe its time to call the card defective. Its supposed to let you do what you want. It fails to provide the desired outcome and Nvdia has not provided any resolution of any sort. So what is Nvidia prepared to do to keep you as a customer? They sold you a card that works 95% of the time, are they going to give you a 5% rebate?
The worst Nvidia can do is tell you to go away, but hopefully they will actually ACT on this problem. If your card is recently purchased, return it for something else. If your cards still under warranty start annoying Nvidia directly rather than in message boards. Get them to fix it or make it right with the consumer. We've reached the end of what I can think of or offer to help. Hopefully we can find owners of the last few 8 series we don't know the bug status on and finish the list, but I am willing to bet the bug will be where I predicted and not where I predicted it to be.
I'm sorry I was unable to make this better.
Now its Nvidia's turn, make them fix it or make it right.
If someone gets a real tech support email please post it here, if everyone who suffered thru this problem all step up at once its harder for them to ignore. Your power lies in not giving up and sticking together. Tell the tech you email that there are dozens of people with this same problem who are tired of not getting help. Stand up be counted and maybe just maybe you can play AC again...
again I'm sorry I wasn't able to make it all better.
wubbie
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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Wubbie, I do appreciate the ideas you've come up with. Even though a few of us felt like heat wasn't an issue, it was a good idea to actually prove it. As a programmer in my professional life, I've been burned by not ruling out things that I felt were "obviously not a problem" but ended up being a problem.... meaning sometimes I've missed simple errors by failing to rule them out. I think your desire to be thorough has been extremely helpful.
I need to ponder some of the details in the rest of your post to see if any ideas pop up.
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TigerBlue1986
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I found a bug report form on nVidia's website, but I could only find one for the Vista OS. Still, it may be a good way of getting them to look at the issue if enough people post a report.
https://surveys.nvidia.com/index.jsp?pi=7498eac864dc1950c8f09e040b4a437a
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Lancelore
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I know this is a nVidia investigation and I have tried 2 brand new 8600 GT 256 cards myself with both flickering in the sky.
Reason for me to try a Radeon one, specs:
ATI Radeon HD 2900 GT, PCI Express x16, Memory Size 256 MB, DDR3.
This card gives nice pictures and no flickering, but ...... it has moments of big lag like landing on a drop, going into heavy graphic areas (i.e. mansion) and wall and ring spells. The rest of the game it handles rather normal. My older card a Radeon 800x/850x (128 vid mem) handled AC in an exellent way.
Like I said in another post, it looks like the newer cards (build to handle Vista), and with at least 256 vid memory, give problems. It seems something is missing on those cards, by nVidia this and by Radeon that. Have they kissed the older systems and games already goodbye?
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hggm
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I have 2 8800 gtx 768. The bug exists in both single and dual card mode.
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Chef_Wubbie
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GeForce 8800 GTX 768 - Bugged - hggm single/dual mode
GeForce 8800 GTS 320 - Bugged - Afker
GeForce 8800 GTS 640 - Bugged - Fyrie
GeForce 8600 GT 256 - Bugged - Tigerblue
GeForce 8600 GT 512 - Betting on Bugged
GeForce 8600 GTS 256 - Betting on Bugged
GeForce 8600 GTS 512 - Bugged - Tao
GeForce 8800 Ultra 786 - Bugged - VI
GeForce 8800 GT 256 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GT 512 - No Bug - GondorB & Others.
GeForce 8800 GT 1024 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GTS 512 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 384 - Betting No Bug
GeForce 8800 GS 768 - Betting No Bug
Yeah I know I said I was done... but
Q - Are these all PCIe cards?
I think there might be something to the PCIe revision on the MB and the card itself.
If they cards were not 100% backwards compatible with older PCIe interfaces...
Or if Nvidia played some games in the card bios to get them to work, is this just the perfect storm in AC that unmasks the evil glitch.
Fact all bugged cards are not 65nm platform.
Fact all nonbugged cards had a backwards incompatibility with PCIe interfaces.
Has anyone actually submitted to a person, not a forum, on Nvidia's support site this bug and pointed them at the wealth of data we have here and on the AC boards?
wubbie - not really here
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Chef_Wubbie
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Ok someone has posted issues with a card thought to be unbugged.
New line of question
What Revision of the PCIe interface does your motherboard use.
wubbie - its like a scab I can't stop picking at it...
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TigerBlue1986
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This is what it says in my motherboard spec:
PCI Express Bus SPEC V1.0a compliant; supports CrossFire Technology
Hope this helps.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I can't seem to find what PCI E spec my MB conforms to. My mb is the Asus PK5 http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1637&l1=3&l2=11&l3=534&l4=0
I downloaded the manual and I can't seem to find it in there either.
EDIT: I found a review that claims it's v1.1
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Chef_Wubbie
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Hurrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
It makes me curious...
Very Very Curious...
someone shake the trees and get other people to post their info...
This could lead to yet a new hypothesis
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Chef_Wubbie
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Oy people of the shimmer....
If you have the bug there are 2 things I'm trying to find out now.
1 - What is the revision of your PCIe interface.
This is sorta a complex question, as there is no easy way to find out it seems. Try googling your motherboard for a review.
2 - Are you running Intel or AMD.
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TigerBlue1986
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1. V1.0a
2. Intel
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PCIe: 1.1
Intel
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I'm running an Intel X38 chipset motherboard with PCIe x16 graphics and support for PCIe 2.0.
As mentioned previously, I've had this system (with an 8800GT 512) for a couple months now and have never experienced any problems (flickering) with AC.
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FyrieWindwalker
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Interesting! Who else besides Gondor is not bugged? Wubbie your list just says Gondor + Others.
I hope there is someone out there with a PCIe 2.0 board with a GTS, or other large chip version card which is considered to be universally bugged. If we get a report of one of those cards working on a 2.0 board that would pretty much prove Wubbie's theory correct IMHO.
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GondorB
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I am not sure who the "others" are, as I did not keep track of them. In the last couple months, I had noticed one or two others post that they also had not experienced a problem with the 8800GT 512 and AC.
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Chef_Wubbie
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We MIGHT have a winner here...
I was afeared it might be a Intel vs AMD thingy, but I think we have a winner in PCIe implementation...
Someone send Gondor a known bugged card
PLZ K THKS!
wubbie - RAR
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GondorB
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Since those that are not experiencing the "flicker" problem with AC may not be paying attention to this thread, maybe it would be wise to start a different post (on Turbine's boards?), asking for input on the PCIe status of those with 8800 series cards that do not experience this problem? Just a thought.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Gondor - stop making sense! Ise trying to get people to send your series 8 cards
Edited Bit -
So I make a thread... ask only that data get posted...
First reply - what series 8 bug?
remind me again why I'm trying?
For anyone keeping score...
Data Thread - http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=37641
Bug Thread - http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=36609
Public Service Thread - http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=37535
VnBoards Thread *You Are Here* - http://vnboards.ign.com/ac_utilities/b5432/106142724/p1/?84
Data Request AC General - http://vnboards.ign.com/ac_general_board/b5141/106465496/p1/?0
Poke people do what it takes... lets mine this data and see what it shows us.
Edited Bit part 2
So I dropped a PM to Frelorn...
Asked if he would help publicize the thread looking for data
Lets see if that gets anywhere...
wubbie - Imma not gonna carry this torch all by myself... I still don't own a series 8 card...
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Mawnee
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I"m getting it as well.
I have the new 8800GTS 512mb (new g92 gpu like the 8800gt)
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I pinch
EQ, AC, AO, DAoC, E&B, SB, SWG, AC2, CoH, Eve, UO, Horizons, EQ2, WoW, MxO, VG, AoC, CO, STO, Aion......
....and still looking for a world to call home.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Mawnee a couple questions
1 - Amd or Intel?
2 - What PCIe revision does your motherboard use? If you can't find it just let me know maker and model number and we will try to find it.
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STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMO!
We've found someone on the Turbine boards with access to several of the known bugged cards as well as motherboards with the 1.x and 2.0 PCIe interfaces. They have offered to test the cards in both motherboards and report if the problem was there or not.
This is out best chance for seeing if this is where the problem lies.
Cross your fingers, this does not mean we will have an immediate solution but it means we can try tracking this issue to its source which should increase the ability to have this fixed immensely!
wubbie - hopeful
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STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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GondorB
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Good work wubbie!
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FyrieWindwalker
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Excellent Indeed!
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rkon
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I unfortunately have the shimmer sky bug:
Nvidia 8500GT 512
HP AMD 5000+
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Mawnee
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Its an 8800GTS 512MB(G92)
Intel core 2 duo 6750
Gigabyte P35 MB
PCI-e 2.0
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I pinch
EQ, AC, AO, DAoC, E&B, SB, SWG, AC2, CoH, Eve, UO, Horizons, EQ2, WoW, MxO, VG, AoC, CO, STO, Aion......
....and still looking for a world to call home.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Thank you for the added information... I'm working on a new spreadhseet atm with newer info added into it...
Fyrie - Lifted form Wikipedia just for you....
"Nvidia does not publish the documentation for its hardware, meaning that programmers cannot write appropriate and effective open-source drivers for Nvidia's products. Instead, Nvidia provides its own binary GeForce graphics drivers for X.Org and a thin open-source library that interfaces with the Linux, FreeBSD or Solaris kernels and the proprietary graphics software."
So its possible the nonbug under WINE is from that, not triggering something thats not "supported" in Linux but is in windows.
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No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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David_the_Bear
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Nvidia GEForce 8600 GTS, not sure of the MB properties, lol, but I am running an Intel
DtB
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The more people I meet, the more I like my cat Retired-Lvl 251 Battle Dagger/Sword Bear, Bunny Master  Retired-David the UA Bear-Lvl 250-Queen Slayer Retired- Lvl 275-David the Mage Bear-David's Rare Bear Lvl 275/Died 887 Last Mage Death Coun
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GondorB
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Wubbie - notice that Mawnee indicates having the problem with a 8800GTS 512MB(G92) & PCI-e 2.0 system.
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FyrieWindwalker
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Wubbie,
I'm sick, so I'm a little slow today. My brain is running on half power . I'm not quite understanding what you getting at. There are open source drivers out there, but I haven't tried those. I'm currently using the nVidia binary. It is true that the nVidia linux driver is shrouded in mystery because there is no source for it. In addition to that, I've never seen a document that lists what card features are supported compared to the windows driver. I guess there is no way to know if there is a 1 to 1 feature correlation between the Linux and Windows driver. I'd consider the linux driver a variable, and I also consider WINE's implementation of the direct 3d libraries to be another huge variable. Who knows.. Maybe it's entirely related to WINE and the drivers have nothing to do with it. It's hard to say.
I don't know if I mentioned this earler, but the latest version of wine broke the ac launcher. D'oh!
I've been reading a lot lately about how nVidia and ATI basically don't care about backwards compatibility at this point. That is so sad. I understand that new games drive upgrade adoption, but people want to play games from all eras of pc gaming.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Mawnee - thank you for your information, I apologize for being a bit slow but last night I spent over 2 hours reading and rereading threads updating the list of bugged cards.
Fyrie - I think I was more pointing to the fact that Nvidia has an entirely different driver implementation for *nix and could explain the bug not appearing in WINE.
If you were coding something for *nix would you bother including Windows type calls?
And because Nvidia has decided to be super secret about how it works, even if we could find someone willing to trudge thru the code and find the AHA moment where it all goes boom, we can't. But its very telling that its not maybe a physical defect in the card.
GondorB - You have the oddest card Can I get a couple more favors? Under 5 min total I swear!
1 - Who made your card? PNY, BFG etc...
2 - Whats the BIOS revision on your card? I had to reenable the old style control panel to find this info because the "NEW" better stronger faster Nvidia control panel won't tell you ANYTHING useful about the card. AHA under the help there is a system information option the bios is buried there.
I'mma try to re-find the person who reported your card as bugged in their system and try for the same information for comparison.
If you had a different BIOS/Firmware than the other cards showing the bug I'm not sure what it tells us but I allows us add that detail to the mix. Being able to tell an Nvidia tech "Look 2 "identical" cards the only difference is 1 shows the bug the other doesn't. The ONLY difference is the BIOS revision. This bug shows up on nearly EVERY series 8 card except those with a BIOS higher/lower than x.x.x.xxx.xx.x"
Ugh if only it was that simple...
wubbie - still coughing his lungs out...
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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I am copy pasting from my thread on Turbine boards cause this is important...
Ok Absoultion and Gondor have both gotten back to me...
Absolution - Bios 62.92.1f.00.01
Gondor - Bios 62.92.12.00.04
As I remember Gondor has a 2.0 rev and Absolution had a 1.XX...
Both of them are using cards bulk packaged with their machines so they do not know the manufacturers easily heck they could be the same.
Fyrie - I don't understand how numbers progress when you add a b c e d f etc to the mix, can you shed some light on it?
Okies, people with the bug... Hit your manufacturer's webpages. The fact that Fyrie found a BIOS offering fixes for some of the cards that SPECIFICALLY talked about PCIe implementation fixes leads me to think that my crackpot idea about a problem with PCIe might go somewhere.
wubbie - did someone sacrifice a turbine staffer to find help and not tell me?
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STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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GondorB
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"I don't understand how numbers progress when you add a b c e d f etc to the mix, can you shed some light on it?"
Wubbie - this would indicate the use of hexidicimal numbering, using a base of 16, where 0–9 represents digits zero to nine, plus a-f to represent digits with values ten to fifteen.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Gondor - so you have an earlier bios?
I got a line from Absolution and he used NiBiTor to find out who the manufacturer of his card was, it said it was an EVGA.
Anyone been able to head out and check their makers page for BIOS updates?
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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OREOSTARS
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100 REPLIES GOES HERE!
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Chef_Wubbie
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*drowns Oreo in a big glass of milk*
ANYWAYS....
Good news!
I heard back from the person who had the matching card to Gondors but was bugged...
Absolution has VERY GOOD NEWS.... reposted from my board mail with Absolutions permission...
"Re: Series 8 part 2...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef Wubbie
I appreciate you going the extra bit to find the info. The bios reader probably is right.
There was a difference in the BIOS number you had and the BIOS the other person using the similar card. I'm hoping that this might lead to something...
I'll keep plugging away if I find something out I will be sure to shout.
Ok, I checked for bios update from the evga website and got to this page:
http://www.evga.com/support/drivers/...t.asp?switch=2
I updated both my cards bios from 62.92.1f.00.01 to the new one listed on that page 62.92.24.00.01
It did not eliminate the sky streaking problem......However it did reduce the frequency in which it happens by about 75% so I would call it an almost fix.
I think you are on the right track with the PCIe theory."
75% DECREASE.
Its still there BUT a DECREASE just the same.
Its something that CAN be affected.
This leans more to a hardware implementation of Nvidias being sporked.
Check with your card makers about BIOS updates for your video cards!
wubbie
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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hggm
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Here is what the bug looks like on my system. When this happens, I die everytime. It takes 30 secs for any command to go through, and by then, I'm normally done in by the mobs or even singular monster attacking me. However, it even happens as this day, simply when I am muling in the basement.
I haven't seen anyone else post something that looks like this, so I just wanted to get it out there.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4436/screenshot00049xe6.jpg
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/629/screenshot00047ep6.jpg
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FyrieWindwalker
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Hggm,
Woah! That's horrible. It's definitely a different bug.
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hggm
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Could be, but it always happens right after i've been flickering. Doesn't happen in dungeons. I took those the second I walked in the door of the mansion. Either way, I'm guessing if the flicker bug goes away, this one does too.
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Endy_The_Unsane
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I thought I should give a little bit of an update.
It turns out I do have the bug. However, in figuring this out, I also figured out why it is I didn't notice it before. I started noticing it when I would log in around the mansion, but then it would go away, so at first I thought it might be specific to that. I never noticed it anywhere else. Then today I started to notice it a lot as I was switching characters for muling and things. What I realized is that it only happens when I have the main chat window all the way down. Normally one of the first things I do when I log in is to raise it up about 1/3 to 1/2 way.
Not sure if anyone has noticed or mentioned that before. I'm also not sure exactly how far up you have to open the main chat window to stop the bug since I didn't really test that out. I also didn't test to see if it works with the inventory panel closed since I always keep that open.
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Endy al-Unsane 275 Sword / Endy al-Unsane III 270 Mage Peerless Endy 275 Mage / Endy Mion 249 Bow Child of the Quiddity 220 Mage / Vorkosigan 220 UA Endy Tinkertide 275 Tinkerer Endy's Tinkering Calculator: http://the-unsane.com/
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TigerBlue1986
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I went to the XFX site for a BIOS update but no joy unfortunately. I think I saw you guys mentioning luck with VIA chipsets but I have a MSI board anyway.
I hope they (nVidia or Turbine) get this fixed because I'm not resubscribing until they do. I prefer to play outside of dungeons and this bug gives me a headache.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Endy - think pushing the chat window up pushes the "bad" sky sections up and away...
TigerBlue - In the NVIDIA control panel, what BIOS Revision does it say you are using?
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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TigerBlue1986
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Video BIOS: 60.84.58.00.22
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Endy_The_Unsane
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Even so, it can be still be a pretty simple workaround for those that have the bug until/if a true fix is ever found.
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Endy al-Unsane 275 Sword / Endy al-Unsane III 270 Mage Peerless Endy 275 Mage / Endy Mion 249 Bow Child of the Quiddity 220 Mage / Vorkosigan 220 UA Endy Tinkertide 275 Tinkerer Endy's Tinkering Calculator: http://the-unsane.com/
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GondorB
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Wubbie,
Endy is correct in that if you raise the main chat window up some, the flickering problem is reduced greatly.
I am one with an 8800GT 512 who believed he didn't have the 'bug'. Like Endy, I always raise (enlarge) the main chat window as soon as I log in. After reading Endy's post, I decided to leave the main chat window at the default setting and wala, I now see the flickering skies that so many complain about.
You had dismissed Endy's claim due to increasing the main chat window reduces the amount of visible sky. That may be true, but I just tested this with the view angled up to the sky and I still don't have the problem. Granted, my test was short, but this does reduce the flickering problem quite a bit...at least it does for Endy & I.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Gondor and Endy I apologize if thats how you took my response. I was agreeing that the chat window might push the bad blocks out of the way and make it better. I've been working on this bug and a buncha other things and just don't always type the words the right way. Heck the last week or so I;ve had problems seeing the monitor. I had previously suggested max opacity the new floating windows strategically placed before. But if pushing the size of the chat window up creates even a bit of reduction it might be worth seeing how big one needs to make it to push the bad blocks out of sight... now to figure out if it has to be maxxed out or if just making it slighty bigger is enough.
wubbie
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Endy_The_Unsane
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No need to apologize.
The main reason I posted about that is because there are people who are saying the game is unplayable for them. This is something simple they can do that seems to work to at least make it playable, but is not a true fix.
Typically there are 5 lines of text showing for me with the main chat window minimized. Not sure if that changes based on font or resolution. But raising it to 6 lines, it reduced it. Raising it to 7 reduced it even more and iirc raising it to 8 and it's pretty much gone. More people would need to test this to see if it's the same for everyone.
I also played around a limited bit with changing views and such and it really seems that it only happens with the default view. I know someone mentioned somewhere that it seems like a skybox render problem and I tend to agree, though my opinion doesn't mean much since my knowledge is mostly nonexistent when it comes to things like that.
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Endy al-Unsane 275 Sword / Endy al-Unsane III 270 Mage Peerless Endy 275 Mage / Endy Mion 249 Bow Child of the Quiddity 220 Mage / Vorkosigan 220 UA Endy Tinkertide 275 Tinkerer Endy's Tinkering Calculator: http://the-unsane.com/
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FyrieWindwalker
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I'll try adjusting the chat window in the next couple days before my sub runs out. I'll report back.
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Chef_Wubbie
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My final post from the turbine thread copied here... I expect I'll be banned from the turbine boards and the post removed before many people can see it.
(this part was in giant text)
YAY Turbine you win again.
If we all just shut up, unsub and go away you don't have to do a single freaking thing.
(giant text ends)
Fyrie - thank you for resubbing to be my guinea pig. I'm sorry we never found the problem.
micky - thanks for trying, but Turbines just going to ignore the hole in the side of the ship until we sink.
Absolution - and I had such high hopes, but you tried and thats more than Turbines done.
Joshou - sorry to see you go but I can understand the frustration with a company that doesn't care 1 bit about their customers. Once it starts happening to DDO and LOTRO maybe then enough people will complain and Turbine will make a statement that means nothing and does nothing and go back to ignoring it.
For anyone with a Series 8 card you have 3 possible options
1 - Don't play AC, they won't help you and will take your money and ignore you till you go away.
2 - Channel Windows. Stretch them bad boys over the bad areas and make them solid.
3 - There has been some success in making the main chat window around 8 lines high or just maximizing it all the way, you will need to experiment to find the level that works right for you since we all play at different resolutions but this shrinks the area of the screen you see and pushes the bad skyboxen up and out of sight.
For Turbine... all it would have taken is the time for 1 staffer to share some information. We understand your busy trying to keep the worlds up and running lately but even 1 line seems to be more than you can do for your customers. You know like that voice on customer service lines, "Your call is important to us please stay on the line." The message you've managed to send is "We don't care, pay us or don't pay us we don't need or want your business."
Epic Fail on the customer support, you couldn't even post ONCE to say still working on it. You used to be the standard I judged online games by now your just the punchline to a bad joke. Sad thing the jokes on the customer and its not the least bit funny.
wubbie - debating if keeping my accounts is worth it, the game is greater than its code, its the people who play that make it great. Shame the good ones are starting to leave the sinking ship.
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FyrieWindwalker
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We are talking about the main chat window that runs along the bottom of the screen right? Well, I've tried incrementally increasing it to the max and I didn't really notice any difference in flicker.
FYI: I've found a really good place to observe flickering at all times of day: Holtburg - 49.1N 33.7E. Face the lifestone (north) and move your character left/right a little to get instant flickering.
Wubbie - Thanks for all the help. It's been fun banging my head against the wall with you for the past month.
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David_the_Bear
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Not sure if this is related to the flicker bug or not but I had this happen when I portaled from my LS to Candeth.
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Scared0o0Rabbit
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Lmao, that's kind of a neat trick DtB =D.
My old radeon 9700 pro would occasionally pull a fast one on me and turn off all the textures in ac, that was kind of fun heh. Sucks that so many people are having an issue with this, it certainly sounds like an nvidia bug. I haven't read all of the posts, but has changing the resolution, switching from window mode to full screen or vice versa and things like that all been tried? What about a 3rd party driver instead of the nvidia drivers? Something like omega drivers (omegadrivers.net)?
As I said, I haven't read all the posts so I have no idea if you guys have tried all that, but if not maybe something to fool around with. I'd be pissed if this was happening to me too, unfortunately (or fortunately lol) my computer is somewhat archaic and only has an agp 4x slot lmao, so I'm not stuck with this problem (of course I don't think I'll ever be playing crysis on this pc either heh).
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Chef_Wubbie
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DTB - its Turbines new "your name in lights program"
It more than likely has something to do with Turbine and Nvidia but as to what it is... we got nuffin.
Rabbit - Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep.
This is just Turbine code and Nvidia code not playing well together on Series 8 cards.
Turbine doesn't want to support the game or the players. Pushing out the LOTRO expansion is much more important to them that fixing a problem thats been in the game for over a year. They can;t even take the time to make a single post saying we know there is still and iddue and we are working on a resolution. You knwo that great PR speak that means we are saying this so you'll shut up and leave us alone again for a while...
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David_the_Bear
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It was pretty cool looking, just had to share it.
Yea, it does seem that Turbine dosen't care about the minor graphic glitches it has
I also get some strange effects if I alt/tab out, or dual log, 50% of the time when I dual log the graphics are messed up, but all I need to fix it is just alt tab again and they get reloaded.
Dtb
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Chef_Wubbie
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Saw this in my rss feed today...
Techbargains.com - XFX PVT94PYDF4 GeForce 9600GT 512MB PCI Express Video Card $129.99
http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/115693
Its not an 8 and its about the price of an 8
While we still dunno for sure if the bug continues into the 9 Series, I've never had anyone post about problems with a 9 Series.
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hggm
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I bet it is since the 9 series is a misnomer, they are still 8 series chips.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Series 9 is different, the chips might be similar but the programming and how they do stuff is different.
Still not heard back from the guinea pig who was going to test a Series 9 and report back but I gotta think people who bought killer new cards would be screaming if AC was misbehaving...
Everyone needs to make their own choices at this point, but i saw a deal I thought was good and might help some people.
wubbie
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krotos2
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Myself I have a gateway laptop with the popular 8800 gts with 512 mb, system memory 3 gigs, dunno if all you comps partially share, but my use approximately 1200 megabytes from system memory, reaching almost 1800 megabytes.
I'm not sure if its the same thing, but when I'm out in the open land of dereth, I get glitches on the skies graphics, I've tried to fix it but no results, this only happens to the sky.
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immortalbob
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fyi: Vista SP1 does NOT fix the flicker issue
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Chef_Wubbie
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ty immortalbob, we've figured that this is a failure on Turbines side in the code or Nvidia.
Turbine has shown they don't give a *redacted* about their customers by ignoring the issue hoping it will go away. The problem they can't figure out is we as a group rarely buy the super high end cards just to play AC, but when the Series 8 cards that were so expensive are now affordable as companys just want to move the inventory that more and more customers are going to find themselves having this bug and when they see the only time Turbine addressed the issue was over a year ago and never did any sort of follow up, then find the people who tried to find the source of the problem and got not a peep form Turbine... they will see Turbine fail yet again to do anything for their customer base.
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RomenAC
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This bug reminds me of the Quake sky issue with the nvidia Geforce 3 Ti series
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Monolith_WE
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ugh, which I would have read this before now, I just bought one of these, guess I will send it back.
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YewWanSum
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I have a 9800 GX2 on the way. I'll see if the same issue exists with that. Should be sometime mid-next week before I have the system built.
For those interested in builds here's my current pick:
Intel Q6600 (expect >3.2Ghz OC)
ASUS Rampage Formula
2 x Raptor X 150 RAID 0
8GB G.Skill PC-8500
Noctua U12 cpu cooler
Lian-li V2000b case
Gigabyte ODIN 800W PS
XFX 9800 GX2 video card
Plextor SATA DVD-RW
Vista Ultimate 64
Still many more pieces to go (I have 10 3.5" bays left to fill with 750GB/1TB drives in a RAID 6 config
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Chef_Wubbie
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YewWanSum - look forward to seeing if this conitunes in the Series 9...
wow and people told me my 3 Terrabytes of drive space was excessive...
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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YewWanSum
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I have the new machine built. Running at 1920x1200 (native resolution for 24" monitor) with every option turned on and every setting at maximum, I never drop below 60FPS(I set to refresh sync) and never exceed 33% cpu. Unfortunately, the sky texture bug is not resolved. Since I had an ATI card previously, I will be complaining to NVIDIA about this. None of the settings I have tried yet has had an effect. I'll deal with it, if only because I should be able to quad-log with ease =P, but there should be a resolution to this issue.
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hggm
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As I said previously, the 9000 series uses the exact same chipset and architecture of the 8000 series. They didn't change anything to the cores. 9000 is just a misnomer and way for them to sell more cards to those who don't know this. For a really good explanation, look here: http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/01/nvidia_geforce_9800gtx_review/
You'll have to wait until the next cycle from Nvidia to know whether or not they fix it, sorry, but it's true.
I can't believe I'm going to do this, but i'm trashing my two 8800gtx's for a Radeon. Pathetic, but I love playing AC.
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FyrieWindwalker
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There is a report of the bug on a 9 series on the nvidia thread now:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=48567&view=findpost&p=355694
At this point, Turbine should put "NVidia GeForce 7000 series or under" in the sys requirements.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Turbine is being stupid...
Sigh...
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Chef_Wubbie
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Reposted from the Turbine boards mostly because eventually they will just ban me...
HI TURBINE!
DID YOU FIGURE OUT YOU MIGHT NEED TO ADDRESS THIS YET?
We now have reports of the bug on Series 9 Cards.
So are you going to just say you need a Series 7 or lower to play the game?
How many accounts need to be unsubbed before this might be addressed?
I just want a ball park figure of how much money you need to loose before you actually get off of your collective behinds and start with the typical meaningless "We are looking into it." PR spin that is now the hallmark of your customer service.
Your a game company who can't support an Nvidia card.
Can you even grasp how colossally hysterical and sad this is?
This isn't an off brand card no ones ever heard of... You REALLY can't pretend its not a problem any more, YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING even if its meaningless PR spin, at least then we know you listened this year to the idea your game MIGHT have a problem that needs to be addressed.
Is there even a glimmer of recognition in your mind of this being yet another failure on your part to even acknowledge your playerbase?
Do you understand that the hostility here isn't from people being unreasonable and unpleaseable. THAT WOULD IMPLY YOU'VE TRIED ANY KIND OF FIX BEYOND A YEAR OLD POST OF WE ARE LOOKING INTO IT.
I'm not Hasbro.
I'm not the license holder for LOTR.
I'm just a moron playing a 10 year old game and stupid me I expect you to actually provide support for your game that I pay for every month.
wubbie - what did I expect you can't even bother to ban someone who steals accounts and publicly admits to the theft...
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No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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Since I can't post on the official board anymore because I have unsubbed, someone please post over there that bumping up the chat window doesn't fix it for everybody. It didn't do anything for me. It would be unfortunate if Turbine were to believe this was a universal work-around.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - I've always said that it was a possible workaround and might not work for everyone.
I think for some people its going to be a combination of the size of the main chat window and camera position.
Besides its not like anyone checks Turbine for help any more...
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agnari
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wubbie you seem to be crying a big river over what appears to be a bug in the lvl 8 card.
why don't you go whine on the card maker's board. and if the glitch IS card based/fault, why in the h*ll should turbine worry about fixing it?
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agnari - really? the posts to the Nvidia boards don't mean anything? We've done that.
Most of the information available is that its Turbines programming that is having an issue with the card.
Getting Nvidia to fix their cards for something other than WoW or Crysis isn't going to happen...
Turbine won't even admit that the bug is still occurring, or acknowledge it... they made a post over a year ago that it was a known issue and like everything else Turbine became silent.
I got people together willing to try new settings and drivers and the whole slew of wacky ideas to try to correct the problem, Turbine can't even be bothered to pop in and say still a known issue. We chased all sorts of leads and ideas and even found that the bug doesn't happen when you run AC under WINE on *nix...
This is a problem that it seems only Turbine and Nvidia can work out and neither side wants to lift a finger.
I don't have Turbines sky rendering code and Nvidia doesn't release alot of data about how their drivers work... so unless I can teach myself how to disassemble both sides of this and then how to write in the code its based in my options are limited to keeping Turbine aware that there is a problem, it still exists and the only "help" they ever offered of update your drivers isn't a solution.
wubbie - Hi, we've done that... got anything constructive?
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-Absolution-
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I for one appreciate Chef's effort in trying to track this down and problem solve.
He has done a hell of alot more than Turbine has.
We STILL pay a competitive price to play this game and it is unforgivable that Turbine has not made an effort with Nvidia to correct this problem.
So have we reached a threshold? Do we now say that AC will NOT work with any card series greater than 7? It already doesn't work on 5 outta 10 Vista machines.
If Turbine is going to charge comparable prices for AC, then it should be given the same amount of support. This is not wishful thinking. It is good business.
Agnari you are either an idiot or have stock in Turbine (in which case, that would make you an idiot anyway).
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agnari
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absolution you can KMA
as for being hard on wubbie, yes i was and for a reason. he was complaining very loudly in 3 or 4 places about how it's all turbine's fault and jumping all over them.
NEVER really complaining about the Nvida card. I don't have the problem in any of my four 6000 and 7000 series SO MAYBE the problem is Nvida's fault on the 8000s. I just wanted him to get off turbine's back so much he was very heavy handed from what i saw.
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-Absolution-
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The bug effects the AC playerbase. I have not seen the flicker bug and 8 series cards with any other game other than AC nor have I read about it anywhere.
As it effects AC, then it is Turbine's responsibility whether it is their code or not. Turbine needs to contact Nvidia and work towards a solution.
Rumor has it, that it is also happening with 9 series cards as well so this problem is only going to get bigger and broader.
Bugs and glitches happen all the time between certain games and Gfx cards. Most developers work with the card manufacturer to resolve the issues.
Tell me that if this glitch were happening in LoTRO that it would not be addressed. It would be an absolute top priority.
Why should our customer support be any less? We pay the same monthly fee and we have paid it a hell of a lot longer.
Anyone defending Turbine at this point is a retard.
1st the Vista issues...(how long will people stall on upgrading their PC only to play 1 game?).
Now the GFx issues... (only going to get worse).
..and finally all the in-game bugs, rehashes, inconsistancy, and poor poor poor support.
I can choose to stop playing AC. I know that's what alot of the fanboi's are thinking..
Instead I choose to continue to try and get my money's worth by being critical of the services we are provided.
I wonder if I am the only one who feels cheated??
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Chef_Wubbie
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Agnari... WTF...
You've obviously never tried to find help from Turbine with an issue.
This is a known issue over a year old.
Turbine has made 2 statements.
"Update your video drivers" - this often resulted in the problem being worse.
"This is a known issue and we are working on it." - posted over a year ago.
And yes I had ZOMG 4 posts going in 4 different locations, because NOT EVERYONE FOLLOWS EACH BOARD AVAILABLE ON THE TUBES. And each one of them offered links into the 2 major threads, this one and the one in the main AC forum. Had you bothered to read you would know that we've sought help from Nvidia, at least 4 different card manufacturers, Turbine, people who rewrite Nvidia drivers for fun, and good old fashioned voodoo.
Nvidia doesn't have Turbines code.
The hardware companies don't have Turbines code.
Trying to capture and sacrifice Frelorn to dark gods was a bust as well.
Turbine, the company that ACTUALLY has access to the code that causes the problem, won't even bother with the simplistic BS PR answer of we are still looking into it. This leads to frustrated customers. Turbine has a bad habit of just ignoring problems and hoping they will go away. They currently have players having items just vanish from characters DAILY, they haven't acknowledged that its even possible let alone mentioned we actually read this post and are looking into it. The big problem they are working on fixing is ZOMG players are stacking the preorder gems buff to avoid dispell traps, quick steal another idea from WoW and stuff it in the code.
And no there are no reports of problems on the Series 6 or 7 cards... they are only considered to be outdated nowdays. Series 8 was the new hot toy until Series 9 came out as the new super card. Turbine has stolen so many things from WoW except the idea of making your code work on newer machines. I doubt people will try to downgrade a new PC to make it work with Turbines sporked code.
So I am loudly complaining, I'm sorry I thought a complaint was the way to try to get a solution. I should sit meekly on the sidelines and pray that Turbine gets around to thinking about fixing the problem?
So you seem to think if I buy a windshield wiper that doesn't work well I should complain to the company that made the windshield for not making it work with the wiper?
This is Turbines problem. Turbine wants to ignore it. Fanbois want me to STFU. Before you complain about what you think I may or may not have done why not read all the posts. We've used all the avenues available, I suppose I could write a letter to Blizzard to see if they can offer any help but that seems stupid...
Heavy Handed.... heh... your funny...
Stupid me for thinking that something only Turbine can do anything about is their responsibility to fix...
Oh and because you didn't actually read any of the posts you've missed 1 huge detail...
I don't own a Series 8 or 9.
I play on Series 6.
I stepped into these threads to try to help. I do tech stuff, and someone who read the posts would see that I gathered data, tried to find solutions that didn't blame Turbine and we removed every shred of hope that this was something players could fix. We offered a series of guinea pigs to Turbine to try things on all the different card only to be met with silence.
But by all means... judge me harshly for calling Turbine on their crap support...
And when one of Turbines bugs screws you over and they ignore you, hope that you can find someone like me to scream loudly to get their attention. Or did you think having 20 different posts all over the AC boards on 1 topic is better than 1 thread thats clear about the issue and offers temp solutions and lets the players see Turbine ignore the problem and fanbois defending a company that can not tell its head from its ass?
And yeah alot of my posts bait Turbine into responding in some way... short of calling them the series of words that are nonos here and there, I'm trying to get a response. Even if that response is Frelorn loosing it and telling me to ***K OFF! (BACK right?? )it means they at least looked at the thread. Over 2000 hits on the AC forums into the thread, 100+ messages, 0 Turbine input. This has to be a growing issue thats only going to get worse. But they respond to threads about why Toomies are purple...
wubbie - yeah cause I'm the problem. I'm mean to the company.
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OZ-PK
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My eVGA 8600 GT has the sky flicker as well.
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Chef_Wubbie
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OZ-PK - welcome to the club... thats about the only nice thing I can offer.
Ok possible "workarounds" for the glitchy skyboxen...
1 - try increasing the size of the chat window, some people reported good success at about 8 lines others needed it maximized.
2 - the new chat floating windows... 100% not see thru placed over them works.
In the mean time we still wait for Turbine to admit its bugged. Check in here and on the Turbine forums form time to time any updates will be mentioned here or there.
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Scared0o0Rabbit
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Anyone know if comparable ATI cards have this issue at all? I'm building a new computer soon and people keep recommending the 8800 because of the price versus performance. But I don't want to go that route if it's going to make AC do stupid graphical things.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Scared - it really is hit or miss with Nvidia cards atm...
Depending on the resolution you play the game in, some of the mini fixes make the game playable.
But then you have to train yourself to increase the main chat window like 3 lines or so every time you log in.
I've spoken with someone in game who is reporting new sorts of weirdness on a 5 Series card.
Ati cards have a history with AC of some problems but never anything as large as the evil skyboxen comes to mind as I think about it. The main problem with Ati card is they always ran AC REALLY dark. As I remember the original "Let There Be Light" plugin for decal was written by someone with an ATI card who couldn't get anything in game to make it bright enough to play on. It might be different now but as always YMMV...
There are alot of 88 series cards on specials all over, and the skyboxen for many people can be overcome with minor tweaks on the user side of the gui...
The decision is yours, if your a heavy AC only player look at a Series 6 or 7, if you play alot of other games you will want the power of the 8800 and will have to see what work around works for you.
wubbie - so tired of telling people get older stuff because Turbine won't lift a finger...
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Scared0o0Rabbit
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I'm probably going to go ati, looking at a 3870 I think it is. I've never really been much of a fan of nvidia cards. I'e never had the dark screen problem either though. Of course the only ATI cards I've ever had were a radeon 64MB DDR VIVO, a radeon 9700 pro, and a radeon 9800 pro 256MB so... maybe I just got lucky.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I don't know if this would be a card that you are interested in, but apparently the Radeon X1950Pro is the last great Direct X 9 card as far as compatibility with old games goes. I've been thinking of getting one while I still can and setting up a "old game" computer. Unfortunately it's a little wimpy for the latest games.
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-lino-
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Anyone know if comparable ATI cards have this issue at all? I'm building a new computer soon and people keep recommending the 8800 because of the price versus performance. But I don't want to go that route if it's going to make AC do stupid graphical things.
I have a 512MB Radeon HD3850 and it runs AC just fine
According to http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2217144,00.asp the card is settled somewhere between the 8800GTs and the 8600GTS (and they were testing a 256MB version only!).
It's rather cheap too, at least here in Germany it costs about the same as a 512MB 8600GTS (which is about 100Euro below the 8800GTS).
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Scared0o0Rabbit
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Yeah I think the one I was looking at was fairly cheap actually... around $200 USD.
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_Elwood_
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canceled my accounts this month thank you furbin. i will give up ac but wont give up my 8800 GT .
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> canceled my accounts this month thank you furbin. i will give up ac but wont give up my 8800 GT .
Might want to post that on their boards so they see it.
And did you put that in the exit survey?
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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FyrieWindwalker
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To all of those who are quitting, PLEASE put that in the exit survey. I did twice now
I'm really starting to believe that they are ignoring this on purpose to justify the eventual shutdown.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> I'm really starting to believe that they are ignoring this on purpose to justify the eventual shutdown.
The only way that this makes sense is if some manager is doing it rather than the owners. The owners don't need an excuse to shut down AC, they can do that anytime they want.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Gee if I owned the license for I dunno D&D or LOTR... I'd sure be interested to know how this company deals with issues like this.
It might make me nervous that the company neglects their flagship games issues, what makes me think they will take care of my game properly.
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
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agnari
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and yet ONCE again you are mouthing off at ONLY TURBINE and not the board maker for doing NOTHING.
and you have absolutely zero proof they(turbine) are doing nothing, all you have is no fix. which is NOT proof of doing nothing. only proof of no success.
so please just STFU
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Chef_Wubbie
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and yet ONCE again you are mouthing off at ONLY TURBINE and not the board maker for doing NOTHING.
and you have absolutely zero proof they(turbine) are doing nothing, all you have is no fix. which is NOT proof of doing nothing. only proof of no success.
so please just STFU
agnari - and HOW THE *EXPLETIVE DELETED* WOULD NVIDIA BE ABLE TO TEST THE CODE UNLESS TURBINE LET THEM HAVE ACCESS TO IT?
TURBINE WON'T ADMIT THE PROBLEM EXISTS. WON'T EVEN SAY THEY EVER WORKED ON IT. WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND THAT FANBOI, TURBINE DOESN'T CARE. FRELORN HAS TIME TO MAKE JOKES ABOUT CHANGING PEOPLES POSTS COUNTS BUT AN ISSUE AFFECTING THIS MANY PEOPLE AND HE CAN'T MAKE 1 *EXPLETIVE DELETED* POST SAYING WE ARE WORKING ON IT.
THIS ISN'T A NEW PROBLEM, ITS OVER A YEAR OLD. TURBINE, THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE CODE THAT IS NOT PROPERLY RENDERING ON SOME GRAPHICS CARDS, WILL NOT ADMIT THEIR GAME HAS A *EXPLETIVE DELETED* FLAW.
SO TELL ME HOW I CAN GET NVIDIA TO FIX THIS, BY ALL *EXPLETIVE DELETED* MEANS GENIUS.
WE'VE POSTED ON NVIDIA BOARDS LOOKING FOR HELP.
WHAT MORE SHOULD WE BE DOING TO PROTECT POOR INNOCENT TURBINE FROM MY EVIL EVIL ASSAULTS.
THIS PROBLEM SEEMS TO AFFECT 1 *EXPLETIVE DELETED* GAME, WHY THE *EXPLETIVE DELETED* WOULD NVIDIA DO ANYTHING UNTIL TURBINE APPROACHED THEM?
wubbie - stop telling me to shut up fanboi until you have a real solution or you lift a finger to make it better.
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
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STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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agnari
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lets see
folks with a 4, 5, 6 or 7 series video card DON"T have the problem so YEAH it's stickly a turbine coding problem cause the 8 series is glitched. the dumbness of that logic is so retarded.
GET off turbine's back every rant OR start including a negative rant about the manufacture - casue without the card manufactor's code turbine can't fix it.
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GondorB
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agnari, get off of wubbie's back!!
Wubbie's volunteered hour upon hour trying to find a solution to a problem that he wasn't even affected by. He does realize that this problem, left alone, only increases the numbers of accounts that are unsubscribed, thereby shortening the lifespan of AC, a game you apparently care about.
The problem with Nvdia 8800 series cards on AC affects maybe 0.01% of all Nvdia card owners, while it affects a MUCH larger percentage of AC users. To say that the problem is Nvdia's since AC works fine with older Nvidia cards is asinine. It is AC that hasn't adapted to new technology, new technology should not be hindered by AC. As wubbie has stated, Nvidia does not have access to Turbine’s source code, which makes it basically impossible for them to find a solution on their side without Turbines full involvement.
The ownership of this problem resides soley on Turbine. As wubbie has said multiple times, all Turbine has to really do is take one minute of one employees time and publicly state that they realize the problem still exists and that they're still researching it. This statement could be a blatant lie, but at least they're reciprocating communication on the subject. No, Turbine instead decides to put their combined heads in the sand, ignore the problem, and hope everyone forgets that it's an issue, most likely due to the problem is too difficult for them to correct with their current staff or not worth their investment of resources, as they see the dwindling profits AC produces.
Agnari, you seem to be attacking wubbie as if he's a hindrance to Turbine while he's actually attempting to correct a problem that is an actual deterrent to AC remaining a viable product. If you have nothing constructive to add to finding a solution to the problem, get off this thread!
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Chef_Wubbie
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GondorB - I <3 You
agnari - It doesn't work perfect on every other Nvidia card. I had someone with a Series 5 message me a few days ago having similar yet different problems I was unable to solve right away. I play on drivers 10 releases OLD. Because the newer drivers prove to be "problematic" when combined with Asheron's Call. I have graphic glitches, texture failure and rendering bugs in my Series 6. My problems are NOTHING compared the the people with Series 8 and now Series 9. I don't talk about my problems because while mildly annoying they aren't game breaking. The Series 8/9 Bug is game breaking.
The simple fact is you refuse to accept is that Turbine is determined to ignore this problem. Its the players fault for owning a card we never said we didn't support.
Its Nvidia's fault for releasing drivers that broke it, oh wait every driver that supported Series 8 shows the bug.
Would you suggest that Nvidia recall every 8 and 9 series card so they can be modified to accept and process Turbines bugged code? Or Nvidia break the law and attempt to reverse engineer the AC code to find whats broken and then hand Turbine the fix?
You keep beating the dead horse of I am being mean to Turbine and its a hardware problem, yet you haven't lifted 1 finger to make it better or to do more than offer lip service of well yell at Nvidia. Get me a name of someone at Nvidia I can talk to on behalf of every screwed AC player. Let me have THEM approach Turbine about fixing the problem. And then when Turbine flips them off to maybe just maybe you might accept that I was always after the right company.
Until then keep ranting about how I am the devil. I tried to steal a live event, I complain that Turbine sucks, I point out the flaws in Turbines system. But heres the funny... I still have 2 accounts and I try to play every day. I still freemarket sell beers and shrooms when I am on. I have left hunting to come make some arrows or a PDI or dye someones armor, all for a ty come again and sometimes a donation.
I'm polarizing I get it. What I can't get is the attacks of I'm the devil when I've done more research, testing, theorizing than Turbines even willing to hint at. And yes I will use the fact I am disliked to draw more attention to the fact that Turbine will not say word 1 just to spite me. Cause keeping me ranting and annoyed is definitely the proper way to keep your game going, rather than 1 post of... we are sorry this is happening, we are looking into it still.
So until your ready to offer more than "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" your not worth the effort.
wubbie
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STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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David_the_Bear
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/gasp!!!! He's the debil!!!!!!! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg
DtB
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I want to address 1 last thing...
"casue without the card manufactor's code turbine can't fix it."
You mean the code that all Turbine has to do is ask for?
Nvidia will not give code to regular people, but I am sure they publish spec that are given to game manufacturers if they ask. Do you think they didn't get this for DDO or LOTRO? I've not checked but I am willing to bet the fan base for those games and the license holders would have beat Turbine senseless if they had this type of error.
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Clinta
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Asherons Call is a old game with very few people playing it, I dont think Turbine has lots of people working on fixing small bugs and such nowdays.
I did reactivate my 2 accounts few days ago(after about 5,5 years)and I find the game very enjoable,tho I miss the crowded areas like in Ayan and some other places.
What surprices me is why they dont merge servers since there seem to be very few people online at any time and the game world is huge,larger than all 3 continents in Vanguard merged.
For me this game is the best mmog ever and I would like it to live on.
But I dont think it has very long time left,it feels like there are like 1-10 people loged on as most.
I can live with this flicker bug:-)
Cya
Clinta.
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David_the_Bear
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The flicker bug is annoying, but that being said, I do wish it would get fixed.
As for the servers merging, they have stated that to do that would be almost impossible. You would have the issue of some people having the same name (who would get priority), plus theres the housing issues, suppose the villa you have on FF has been yours since housing became available, would it still be yours if FF merged with HG? Or would you be sharing villas? Or would you be screwed??
DtB
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Clinta
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Name is not a big problem that has been dunn in other games, the first named character keeps his/her name,others will have to find new names for their. For the housing, I cant see why they would not not be able to move those, for example if there are 3 villas on one server there would be 15 after merge( depends on how many servers would be nerged)should not be a problem.
Clinta.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> But I dont think it has very long time left,it feels like there are like 1-10 people loged on as most.
Haha, where did you login? Verdantine?
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David_the_Bear
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Clinta posted:
Name is not a big problem that has been dunn in other games, the first named character keeps his/her name,others will have to find new names for their. For the housing, I cant see why they would not not be able to move those, for example if there are 3 villas on one server there would be 15 after merge( depends on how many servers would be nerged)should not be a problem.
Clinta.
Right, but what if you on FF had the standalone beach villa and you got moved to say, HG where I own it (I dont but still), so you get screwed out of having a unique item on a server. Kinda think thinks would go downhill for ALL the players rather quick.
Besides, on SC, we call things differently then they do on other servers (least I've heard), chat could be confusing for a while, rofl
DtB
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Edit, N/M.
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bartzHG
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> "To say that the problem is Nvdia's since AC works fine with older Nvidia cards is asinine. It is AC that hasn't adapted to new technology, new technology should not be hindered by AC."
> i would have to disagree with this, it is the manufacturer that is responsible to make its product backward compatible to "old tech" that is still currently used. or make it plainly stated on the packaging of its product that it would not be compatible with "old tech".
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bartzHG - interesting point...
But guess what... because Turbine refuses to even admit there is a problem we dunno what is actually going on. They build their own special engine for the game and then made more modifications to it. What if they used a rendering concept that used to be supported but was then dropped because it degraded the system performance. What if they used a quick and dirty "hack" of the code to make something happen, is it still Nvidias problem if Turbine operated outside the actual specs for Direct X? Direct X MS the devil yeah yeah, but its a set of code thats supported by everyone its at least 1 thing you have to do.
Because AC is the only game that I currently know of having this sort of tearing issue, I am more apt to believe its a Turbine cut corners thing rather than an Nvidia screwed them thing.
And until Turbine wants to fess up and admit there is a problem and try to lay the blame on someone else its still their fault...
wubbie - Turbine just pay us and shut up about you not being able to play....
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fitzbean
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omg it's a little sky glitch, not the end of the world folks lol.
And on server merge- wrong way to look at - if and when they do something like this, it will be a NEW server that opens, in which you will be able to transfer characters to, where you will be forced to rename @ transfer time (well, you could try to get your same name if not taken yet) and all housing would just be reset. Once X time has past, they would shutdown all current servers, and only the new server would be left.
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fitzbean - I direct you over to the Turbine Forums where there is this awesome video posted that shows this "little" sky glitch shaking the entire screen. You'd think with over a year they might have at least posted some help for their customers. You'd think they might understand that this started on Series 8 cards and eventually those cards would become more common and more people would be affected. But Turbine hasn't even admitted there is a bug, let alone done anything to fix it.
and remember what might seem like a little bug in a few still pictures to you when it happens every time your outside and trying to hunt and your screen trips out it gets distracting and annoying.
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went and downgraded the driver version on that card i got and it seemed to help. thx. but after awhile of playing i noticed the strange renderings were starting to pop up again just not as noticeable on the most current version of the driver. trying some other archived drivers and we'll see what happens.
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Just the devil checking in...
So I got to talk with Frelorn, all it took was publicly embarrassing him into doing his job.
Like to many other Turbine "issue" posts it was immediately locked, but Frelorn then actually followed thru and PM'd me.
Amazingly Turbine is talking to Nvidia about this problem, I am told, but AC is a property that is small in the grand scheme of things to Nvidia.
If your following the thread over on the Turbine Forums then you've seen my request that people who own affected cards drop a nice email to Nvidia asking them to focus on this problem. I've even asked people with older cards to drop a line and tell Nvidia that this bug is stopping them from considering an Series 8 or 9 card as an upgrade. That there is a group of players who doesn't care about 5 more FPS in Crysis and would rather be able to play something other than the newest games. That a small investment of time and resources would help them keep customers, rather than force them to buy an ATI card.
I've also submitted 2 ideas as "in code" workarounds to the Turbine team. Both ideas are just implementations of the main chat window workarounds. 1 is that the code let you permanently set the main chat window height and its persistent/permanent or that there is a space to enter how many lines you want added to the main chat window every time you log in. 2 is to mod the code for everyone and add 5 or so lines in height to push the blocks off the screen.
I actually have response that these ideas have been submitted and should be considered as short term "fixes". I told them we understand that moding the code isn't something we can expect short turn around time on and it might not be possible to do, but that the attempt and letting us know you at least tried is sometimes more valuable to the players affected who feel abandoned.
So thats my update... Turbine is still working on the problem, applying pressure to Nvidia can only help the cause, polite letters can help. Turbine is at least willing to consider hard coding some workarounds into the game and we go back into a holding pattern...
wubbie
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ok messing around with the nvidia settings it seems if i set the refresrate at 60 instead of using 70 got rid of my issues and i am now using the current release of driver for the card.
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bartzHG - could you please post steps to how you did this? Think about making them very simple and then make them even simpler
Does anyone know of evils this might cause?
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Fyre - sweetie darling love of my loins... are you still lurking here?
cut and pasted from the thread over on Turbine boards...
"Dang it I wish Fyre was around still....
Ok I need a guinea pig...
I want to test a theory thats just hit me...
Fyre was able to run AC under WINE on *nix.
The drivers for *nix that WINE was using did NOT have the evil "skyboxen" happen....
Whats the default refresh rate for AC under WINE?"
Cause well if this is da holy graily type discovery, I think we should all goto HG and follow Bartz around worshiping....
wubbie - guinea pigs... not just for Richard Gere any more...
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So... anyone else tried this setting of the framerate at 60 and had that fix it? Also, anyone got the email address that would be best to email nvidia about this? I don't have an nvidia card yet as I haven't decided between ATI and Nvidia for my new system. But the only thing making me hesitate about the Nvidia card is the sky bug issue...
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Scared Rabbit - that I do not have. You might want to check their website and see what they offer. The position of looking to upgrade and knowing about an issue that will negatively affect you if you choose Nvidia should motivate them to say something and possibly do something. Unless of course they don't want you to buy their product and recommend it to other people....
wubbie - if you can make a CSR cry its a good day....
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Here is my reply from nvdia
Hello Alan,
Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer care.
This is Farzana and I will be assisting you in troubleshooting the issue you are experiencing.
I understand from your email that you have an NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS graphics card with the latest driver installed on Windows Vista operating system and you are experiencing issues while playing the game AC1 wherein, you are getting a distorted tearing display.
In order to assist you better, I will need additional information to determine the nature of problem you are experiencing.
1. Did you experience the same issue while playing any other games or while working with Windows applications? Or, is that specific to the game AC 1?
2. Have you contacted the game developer to check if you need to enable some settings within the game or to update the patches to make it work with GeForce 8 series of graphics card?
3. Please let me know the expansion (full form) of the game AC1 with which you are experiencing issues?
4. Different driver version you have tried installing for your graphics card?
5. Do you have an onboard graphics adapter? What is the model number of your motherboard?
6. Lastly, Please perform the following steps to send us the "msinfo32" file. (System configuration file)
a) Click on the Start button.
b) Select Search,
c) In the Open field, type in "msinfo32" and then press the OK button.
d) This will bring up the Microsoft System Information Utility. Click on File and then save to save this information to your hard drive. You may give it any name you choose.
e) Once the file has been saved on your hard drive, attach it to this support request so that we could review your system configuration.
Best regards,
Farzana,
NVIDIA Customer care
Customer (Alan ) 05/29/2008 08:03 PM
I play ac1 and I used to use 7300 video card and I never had a problem but with my 8400 and 8500 and 8800 cards i get screen wobble/tearing when playing ac1. I should have bought an ati card since this problem has been ongoing for over a year and it is only becuase of the 8000 series. I wasted money on 3 of your cards and I will only buy another if you can fix this problem.
Sincerely
Alan
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David_the_Bear
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Scared0o0Rabbit posted:
So... anyone else tried this setting of the framerate at 60 and had that fix it? .
Mine has ALWAYS been set at 60 and I still have it. Tried it at 70 and the problem persists.
DtB
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Macakebin - WOOTS! Thank you for keeping us in the loop, its one thing when I ask people to do something its another when they do it and share the info as it unfolds.
Please make sure to include the URL of this thread, as well as the Turbine Thread.
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=37641
I am not sure they can see the Turbine forums without an account thou, if this is an issue we can contact Turbine and have one created.
1 - YMMV but this is an Asheron's Call Throne of Destiny only problem.
2 - Developer has claimed attempts at working with Nvidia to locate the problem with no results in over a year.
3 - Asheron's Call - Throne of Destiny by Turbine. A subscription based online MMORPG.
4 - Every driver set supporting Series 8 cards since their release have been tried and tested all with same result. Have also tried "unoffical" drivers with same results. Have used driver "cleanup" software to make sure there were no left over conflicting pieces.
5 - thats all you.
6 - thats all you.
Please also mention that this bug is reported on every card made in the Series 8 line and there are a few confirmed reports in the Series 9 line. You are not the only person affected, and many customers have gotten mixed responses when seeking help via Turbine as well as Nvidia channels. There is 1 insane user who doesn't even own a Series 8 who has been gathering and looking for common possible problems with PCIe, motherboards, chipsets and keeps having people try new ideas to see if there can be a fix found on the player side. We've tried working with Turbine and now we are trying to involve Nvidia directly to help their customers.
One very important thing of note, when run under WINE on *nix systems this bug does not appear. There seems to be some difference between the Nvidia drivers for WIN and *nix that could explain this, but we lack the programming and coding skills to locate it.
This error has already resulted in people quitting the game and others deciding to purchase ATI cards.
Would it be possible to get 1 email address or subject line to use at Nvidia so that the affected people can deal with just 1 person or team who understand the basics of the problem, so they do not need to repeat their issue each time when making contact and we don't overwhelm your support staff with all of them duplicating the same steps for each user who contacts them.
We are a fairly organized group of players and we can and will provide any details they require to help locate and eliminate the problem.
wubbie
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Thanks for help i posted reply and it takes up to 72 hours for reply!
=====================================================================
Question Reference #080529-000158
Subject: I play ac1 and I used to use 7300 video card and I never had a problem but wi...
Product: Graphics cards
Category: Troubleshooting
Choose OS: Microsoft Vista
Submitted: 05/29/2008 08:03 PM
Last Updated: 05/30/2008 09:08 PM
Status: Updated by customer
Product Name
gforce 8800 gs
Driver Version
current
Discussion Thread
Customer (Alan ) 05/30/2008 09:08 PM
Dear Farzana,
I am very grateful for your help. I'd like to give credit to Chef_Wubbie
who's request post on IGN caused me to contact Nvidia. However, there are many more just as dedicated people who have tried to solve the issue. I have played this game on and off for the last few years, but the problem only started with the 8000 series.
Possibly, you would be willing to join the forum discussions or directly with the game mfg. who could set up a special forum password for you to
post on their official site - just for Nvidia to focus on this issue and not waste precious resources with many different people working on isolated requests like mine.
I just wanted to give you a little background (per the very helpful post on IGN), I am part of a very large gaming community that is very dedicated, and there are many parties that are willing to do whatever is necessary to solve this problem as well as ones with technical experience that maybe of greater value. This problem has been going on for a very long time and the best minds of player base has tried their best to solve the problems but have reached a roadblock that is causing many dedicated gamers/players to quit. There is very small group that usually post on the official gamesite forums as well as IGN technical utilities forum for this game. Kindly find below the links to the 2 sites where the post has generated dozens of pages of posts and ideas:
official game site forum:
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=37641
Note: I am not sure you can see or post on the Turbine forums without an account thou, if this is an issue we can contact Turbine and have one created for you.
ign forum utility boards:
http://vnboards.ign.com/ac_utilities/b5432/106142724/p13/?182
quote
Would it be possible to get (1) one email address or subject line to use at Nvidia so that the affected people can deal with just 1 person or team who understand the basics of the problem, so they do not need to repeat their issue each time when making contact and we don't overwhelm your support staff with all of them duplicating the same steps for each user who contacts them.
The game player base are a fairly organized group of players and we can and will provide any details they require to help locate and eliminate the problem.
unquote
Here are the answers to your questions which Chef_Wubbie helped me write:
1 - YMMV but this is an Asheron's Call Throne of Destiny only problem.
2 - Developer has claimed attempts at working with Nvidia to locate the problem with no results in over a year.
3 - Asheron's Call - Throne of Destiny by Turbine. A subscription based online MMORPG.
http://www.turbine.com/contact.html
4 - Every driver set supporting Series 8 cards since their release have been tried and tested all with same result. Have also tried "unoffical" drivers with same results. Have used driver "cleanup" software to make sure there were no left over conflicting pieces.
I am currently using 175.16_geforce_winvista_32bit_english_whql
5 - Onboard graphics GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 - but I do not use,
Motherboard*Manufacturer: Asus *Motherboard Name: M2N68-LA
*HP/Compaq motherboard name: Ivy-GL6
Specs on my computer:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01048301&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3436821
6 - file atatched.
quote from IGN Boards
----------------------
Please also mention that this bug is reported on every card made in the Series 8 line and there are a few confirmed reports in the Series 9 line. You are not the only person affected, and many customers have gotten mixed responses when seeking help via Turbine as well as Nvidia channels. There is 1 insane user who doesn't even own a Series 8 who has been gathering and looking for common possible problems with PCIe, motherboards, chipsets and keeps having people try new ideas to see if there can be a fix found on the player side. We've tried working with Turbine and now we are trying to involve Nvidia directly to help their customers.
One very important thing of note, when run under WINE on *nix systems this bug does not appear. There seems to be some difference between the Nvidia drivers for WIN and *nix that could explain this, but we lack the programming and coding skills to locate it.
This error has already resulted in people quitting the game and others deciding to purchase ATI cards.
--------
unquote
Sincerely,
Alan
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YAY! A new corporate entity to hates me! (trust me, you'll learn soon enough to hate me. but I really am a nice guy if your working on helping players.)
*does the happy dance*
I'm more impressed you got a reply that was more than just change your drivers and move on.
Hopefully the nice people from Nvidia will stop by and say hi here.
Hi Nvidia people!
I'm the crazy without a Series 8 who keeps pushing the hamster wheel of we can find a fix!
As a review of this thread will show you, we've tried ALOT of things...
But we can confirm the bug on every Series 8 card and some Series 9.
The mobile chipsets may or may not have the bug, there is some debate and so few people actually play games on laptops gathering data is problematic at best.
If we can provide any information thats not already here by all means all you need to do is ask.
We're glad your here... and don't take this the wrong way but I hope your stay is short as we locate a fix quickly
wubbie - the other white meat
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Thanks 'other white meat' haha
Here is reply - not much yet
============================
Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.
We are continuing to work on your issue. If you have more information, update your question here
Subject
I play ac1 and I used to use 7300 video card and I never had a problem but wi...
Discussion Thread
Response (GG) 05/31/2008 12:37 PM
Hello Alan,
Your case is being escalated to our Level 2 Tech Support group. The Level 2 agents will review the case notes and may attempt to recreate your issue or find a workaround solution if possible. As this process may take some time we ask that you be patient and a Level 2 tech will contact you as soon they can to help resolve your issue.
Best Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care
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Hmm, recreate the issue. That's easy
Load up a machine with the affected card, load on AC-TOD, open a pack and VIOLA, there ya go
DtB
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DtB, be nice... they are at least in process and keeping the customer informed... something that can't be said about a certain MMORPG creator...
Now to see if a level 2 tech can see the problem and say WTF thats not right and work on it
Anyways if you wander thru HI NVIDIA PEOPLE!
wubbie - wheeeeeeeeeee
edited bit - oh... hurm i reread what they wrote... if they give us a workaround of raise the main chat window a line or 2 Imma gonna smack them... no workarounds... solutions!
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
DtB, be nice... they are at least in process and keeping the customer informed... something that can't be said about a certain MMORPG creator...
Actually I was and am being nice
I do know how important it is to be able to duplicate a problem with software so they know if the fix worked or not. The fact that this one IS so easy to duplicate is what I was pointing out
DtB
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Chef_Wubbie
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Now if only Turbine will give them a free trial or comped account to play around with...
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_Rascal_
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I can confirm the problem exists with the MSI 9600 GT 512 MB BIOS 62.94.0D.00.02
driver 6.14.11.7474
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FyrieWindwalker
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I saw Rachara's post on the official boards. I was running at the same resolution. 1680x1050 is a common 16x10 resolution for LCDs.
One thing regarding my experience with the chat window not fixing things: I have to admit that I was testing it in one area of the world that I found to be particularly problematic. Perhaps if I tried different areas of the game I would have seen improvement.
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UldartheSkilled
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I'm glad that they are taking this on.
It's not so serious that it stops me playing, but it is rather annoying to get a whiz-bang graphics card in a new computer and then have this problem.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie! - we missed you
When I say nonstandard resolution you need to frame in it in the times AC was developed.
640x480 was the default for windows
800x600 was a good resolution
1024x768 only if you had an awesome card
1280x1024 are you insane?
there was one or two above this but I don't remember them.
While technology has marched on Turbine hasn't been on the cutting edge, we all agree on this.
I sometimes wonder if its more apparent in the "nonstandard" resolutions that aren't multiples of the original resolutions.
We've had contact, as you can see here, from Nvidia and have been told we are getting a Level 2 Tech.
The upside is we are taking small steps closer to a solution, but I think it will take a while longer...
wubbie
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Cyberkiller1234
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"I play ac1 and I used to use 7300 video card"
LMAO, "I play ac1" come on lol. Some nvidia tech doesn't know what the heck AC1 is.
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Macakebin
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For the last year I played about 10 different 14 days trials but I always get depressed and quit.
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Don't wear condoms Die what do I care?
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FyrieWindwalker
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Wubbie,
Gotcha. Hrmm.... If it helps at all, I did try using all the old standard 4:3ish resolutions both fullscreen and in a window and I didn't really notice much difference at all. Truth be told, I couldn't find any variable configuration element that made things better or worse.
I'm still keeping an eye out here and on the official boards. I check more-or-less daily still. I need help .
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Macakebin
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I sent message to nvdia -
Discussion Thread
Customer (Alan ) 06/09/2008 06:19 PM
It has been over a week and no reply from level 2 people. Why don't you just log onto the game, get a free trial and in 2 seconds you can see the problems.
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No heath insurance - that sucks - sorry.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Macakebin - thanks for keeping on them...
hopefully they will get some information out, its alwasy better to tell people we are sorry we've not gotten there yet but we are still aware and are trying...
now if i could get turbine to try this simple method
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sliyurs
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I am not sure if this was posted as i don't want to read all the posts.
But the fix to this problem is to move your chat bar up by 1 little increment. Voila the flicker is gone.
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Chef_Wubbie
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sliyurs - yep thats been posted. Its not always 1 that fixes it though.
The problem is remembering to reset the window every time you log in.
wubbie
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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GondorB
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"The problem is remembering to reset the window every time you log in."
As I've been one who always raises the main chat bar a line or two (which caused me to originally think that I didn't have this "bug"), I've always wished that the game would save the positioning of the main chat window at log out, so it wouldn't have to be readjusted each time. It does retain any other chat windows in use at log out, so I would think that this would be fairly easy to implement, just not a priority.
{Congrats on 200 posts for this thread!}
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Chef_Wubbie
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Gondor - 3 possible implementations were submitted to Frelorn to hand over to tech staff. Until the 100th patch and subsequent hotfixes are done, I doubt we will see much forward motion. Still no word out of Nvidia... I wish i knew where the posts were so we could send over every single person whos affects and have them add, Me too to the thread to impress how many people are affected.
wubs
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RadicalSuperBuff
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tag
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David_the_Bear
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Even though this has probably been mentioned, Vista, 6 gigs of RAM, 9500 Nviadia card, same problem as when I had my Series 8 card.
DtB
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The more people I meet, the more I like my cat Retired-Lvl 251 Battle Dagger/Sword Bear, Bunny Master Retired-David the UA Bear-Lvl 250-Queen Slayer Retired- Lvl 275-David the Mage Bear-David's Rare Bear Lvl 275/Died 887 Last Mage Death Coun
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The-Loser69
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sorry if this was discussed before but does anyone know which 9 series cards work for AC without the flickering? i have an 88gt 512 and i dont want to downgrade my vid card to play AC cuz i play other newer games aswell
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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I think it's all 9xxx...get an ATI card.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Chef_Wubbie
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very few reports on Series 9 Cards, but every report we have is bug still there.
If you maximize the main chat window, or raise it 1-x lines in height you can push the flicker off the screen, or tap 2 on the keypad to adjust the camera angle.
Question - Isn;t there a camera angle setting in the config tab? Has anyone tried setting that? Thats one of the few persisitant settings we get that might have an affect.
wubs
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Wolfpaw_We
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I don't recall a camera angle setting, just the FoV. I may be wrong though...
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Maglett_of_FF
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There are 4 camera settings:
Camera Stiffness (slider)
Camera Adjustment Speed (slider)
Field of View (slider)
Aline camera to Slope (radio button)
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The-Loser69
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no reported problems with ATI cards?
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Not that I know of. Just buy an ATI card.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Maglett - thanks for the info... FOV might be worth playing with for bugged people but as I remeber it wasn't pretty the last time i played with it...
ATI might be the way to go...
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Wolfpaw_We
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FoV does not fix it, unfortunately.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Ok so we are back to the main window cheats to workaround it
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Naia-Ra-Sal
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anyone here with one of the new nvidea cards ?
would be nice t know if those are also displaying that bug.
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Chef_Wubbie
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*blink, twitch*
Reports we have are that the Series 9 cards display the bug as well. We have limited input because the cards are not commonly used currently.
*blink, twitch*
this has been a recording...
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
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Naia-Ra-Sal
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Im talking about the 260 and 280 series
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Naia Ra-Sal lvl 262 Warlord of Dereth
Vainda Ra-Sal lvl 275 Shellfish Hater
Xavia Ra-Sal lvl 250
Vaindas Oil Slave Max Speced Armor Tink , Max speced Weapon Tink
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Chef_Wubbie
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Nvidia our cards suck so bad we took a 0 off of the series numbers?
Not seen anything about them yet but if you buy one let us know
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> Nvidia our cards suck so bad we took a 0 off of the series numbers?
Well, with modelnumberflation eventually the numbers get so big that people can't tell the difference...then you have to make a low model number to make it seem simple again!
It always reminds me of scoreflation in arcade games...first, games gave you points in increments of 1, then 10, then 100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000, etc. Gotta love how a lot of arcade games just append an arbitrary number of zeroes to the score that is displayed on the screen to make it seem more exiting. PC gaming hardware is like that
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The-Loser69
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thinking about getting this card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103057 you guys think it would be a good buy?
i dont really want to go much over 200 bucks but i also need a good card that will allow me to play AC and new games aswell
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headache_mt
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OK
I am at the point where moving the chat screen does nothing i still get the bug no matter what.
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mrFlipo
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I keep hoping that this gets fixed.
I have always advised people to get a G-force/nvidia card so it will work with AC for years.
Needless to say I stopped doing that when this issue was first reported. I really thought NVidia
would have reported a fix or pointed to some issue(s) that software is doing/not doing by now.
btw, I'm happy/proud that SC has work hard to trouble shoot this issue. I'm also sorry
you had to go to these efforts.
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el_ibn_der
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I have this issue but maybe not to the extent most of you do because it honestly doesn't bother me in the slightest. Its not like AC has beautiful graphics I want to savor anyways.
So the sky flickers now and then, doesn't hurt the gameplay whatsoever for me.
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migrax
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It's a good card, but go for the 4850 instead, it's cheaper and faster.
migrax
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Chef_Wubbie
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el_ibn_der - as with all things computers YMMV. I'm happy it doesn't detract from your game. I hope you never get the entire screen flickering wildly that plagues several people who use Series 8/9 cards.
ATI cards - I know nothing about them, but recently seen a thread where they are having problems multilogging characters with them. If you dual/triple/etc log alot... you might want to check that thread out first.
headache_mt - even if you maximize the main chat window you still have the glitch bleeding thru? If your still around I'd love to know what card and what resoultion your playing the game at. I can't promise to fix it, but I can try to see if we can locate a better bandaid for your problem. The glitch fixes were, I thought, working for everyone so if I need more info to try to create another workaround.
wubbie - still don't own a series 8 or 9...
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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David_the_Bear
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I'm starting to get it now in full screen.
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The more people I meet, the more I like my cat Retired-Lvl 251 Battle Dagger/Sword Bear, Bunny Master Retired-David the UA Bear-Lvl 250-Queen Slayer Retired- Lvl 275-David the Mage Bear-David's Rare Bear Lvl 275/Died 887 Last Mage Death Coun
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Xeon_Xarid
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I recently upgraded to a NVidia GTX260 card from a 7800. Always had zero problems before, but have noticed flickers on the landscape every once in a while. Portions will briefly flash white. This is dual logged with lots of plugins loaded and have only had the card for 2 days, so not a lot of time to investigate. Will report back when I have more data.
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FyrieWindwalker
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I was REALLY hoping they would get this issue sorted out before the 100th patch. I might just have to get this running under WINE again by substituting the currently bugged WINE dll with a copy of the real Windows binary.
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Xeon_Xarid
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If I expose lots of the sky, I can reproduce this simply by spinning around.
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
Chip type: GeForce GTX 260
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_05E2&SUBSYS_82911043&REV_A1
Display Memory: 896.0 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Dell E228WFP
Monitor Max Res: 1680,1050
Driver Name: nv4_disp.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.7741 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 6/18/2008 17:46:00, 6052608 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Mini VDD: nv4_mini.sys
Mini VDD Date: 6/18/2008 17:46:00, 6010752 bytes
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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XX: that's about what it looks like for me, too.
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David_the_Bear
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Ok, who took control of my computer!!!!
Just kidding Same thing for me XX. Looks identical.
DtB
Edit:
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GS
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9500 GS
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0644&SUBSYS_13301462&REV_A1
Display Memory: 2539 MB
Dedicated Memory: 493 MB
Shared Memory: 2046 MB
Current Mode: 1600 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Generic PnP Monitor
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2umx.dll, nvwgf2um
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.7740 (English)
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Xeon_Xarid
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Does everyone having this problem run under windows XP? Anyone get it under Vista?
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FyrieWindwalker
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I was able to reproduce the bug in Vista 32.
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David_the_Bear
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Xeon_Xarid posted:
Does everyone having this problem run under windows XP? Anyone get it under Vista?
Vista 64x
DtB
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Xeon_Xarid
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Interesting that it did not appear until the 9xxx series of cards. My GT 7800 had not artifacts.
Looks like a couple things changed between the 7xxx and 8xxx series of cards:
Wiki posted:
Nvidia released the 8-series chip towards the end of 2006, making the 8-series the first to support Microsoft's next-generation DirectX 10 specification. The 8-series GPUs also featured the revolutionary Unified Shader Architecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Shader_Architecture
I could almost see the problem being the new shader architecture, as it dynamically allocates computational units based on work load type. If AC expects the shaders to always be available, but the hardware is switching them between tasks...
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Chef_Wubbie
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Xeon - it started with the 8 series... but unified shaders... intresting...
Not something I had considered, but this could be a very intresting clue..
edited bits....
I've passed this on to Frelorn to pass to tech at Turbine to look at... cross fingers...
Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie! Fyrie!
I need your expertise!
Do the Wine/*nix Nvidia drivers talk about using the unified shader?
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FyrieWindwalker
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http://www.winehq.org/site/status_directx
http://wiki.winehq.org/DirectX-ToDo
I'll try to dig a little more, but WINE implements directX9 which only includes up to shader model 3. Shader model 4 (Unified Shader Model) is directX 10 only, and even then the developer has to opt into that shader model. The unified Shader Architecture is something that happens behind the scenes in hardware if I understand it correctly, but I could be wrong. It is important to note that new ATI cards use unified shader model as well. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but a game running under DirectX 9 in XP or Vista would not be promoted to run full blown Unified Shader Model/Architecture.
I'll report back if I can figure out any peculiarities as far as nvidia *nix drivers + wined3d go. If anyone else knows something, please jump on in. I'm more of a software than hardware guy.
Another thing to throw out there again if it hasn't been explicitly stated before. The 8000+ series cards are not very compatible with 8bit and 16bit operations/rendering. The cards typically substitute 32 bit implementations for these older operations. This is why Thief 1+2 won't work with the 8000+ series without a fan made patch which redirects function calls to older versions of the function.
Someone who is still playing the game may want to make a plea to this person to take a look at the issue:
http://timeslip.chorrol.com/ddfix.html
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - I'm wondering if the unified thingy was so cool that Nvidia just dumped everything thru it. I mean we all are chomping at the bit to run Vista... *blink* so DX10 isn't that important in the real world...
But they made a change towards the unified shader... and ATI uses a unified shader. how much you wanna bet they aren't the same
Once upon a time I talked about it might just be some calls that got thrown out or it was a "backdoor" way to make something happen that someone removed because "no one should use it".
The simple fact they put the unified shader in more than likely means they are coding their drivers to just use it, translating older calls on the fly, it does make some sense as Nvidia is well known for bad long term support of games. They get old and Nvidia drivers suddenly make them worse or not work at all. I patch a machine at work for WoW and with newer drivers the video card flipped out over and over. A little digging and something like 15 revisions of the driver backwards you get a stable driver for that card in WoW. We got an upgraded card for the machine and I put it in and XP flipped out. The screen got funky and I ended up heading here http://www.overclock.net/faqs/12466-info-nvidia-driver-cleaning-guide.html I followed the directions and even found some ATI drivers that were still lingering in the machine as well as various bits and pieces of Nvidia drivers.... I disabled the Nvidia control panel and tray icon stuff from loading and stripped it way down. Got it rebooted and installed newer drivers and no problems. I wonder how many are seen to be game problems that are problems from Nvidia not being able to cleanly remove their product when you update...
So I sometimes wonder when we've tried newer drivers if we really are trying the newer drivers as Nvidia likes to leave bits and pieces everywhere. There are setting buried in the trayicon files that are specific to a card and might result in a new card having issues...
but now my mind is wandering...
unifed shaders... anyone know anything or know someone who knows anything?
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Xeon_Xarid
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Hmm, I'll try that NVidia driver cleaner when I get a chance and report if it makes any difference.
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FyrieWindwalker
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Showrbeast posted over on nVidia and official forums the following:
I may have a solution to this issue. Try turning off 'Threaded Optimization' in the driver settings (especially for dual core computers). So far it has helped on my system (Opteron 185/8800GT).
Can somebody please try this and post back the results? I don't want to resub just to find out.
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Endy_The_Unsane
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Changed it, rebooted, went in game, no change.
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Xeon_Xarid
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Yep, no change here either.
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Chef_Wubbie
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We are still here and still working on ideas...
wubbie - this has been a stealth bump
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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Sanddh
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New PC, fresh install of everything.. a few times
OS: XP SP3
Leadtek 9800 GTX+, driver 177.79 (the newest)
Quadcore Intel, MSI P45 Platinum Mboard
Flicker occurs with windowed mode as well as full screen
Tried Rivatuning it.. no luck
Tried turning off the thread optimization.. no luck
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Chef_Wubbie
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ok so I dropped the ball a bit here. I've been over on the thread on the Ac Forums and not here...
We are trying to insert a program called 3DAnalyze into the launcher of the game to see if we can find a setting that might either solve or eliminate the problem...
we are still working on this...
wubs
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
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No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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Preliminary reports show that we might have a very good viable solution in 3DAnalyze.
Fyrie is working on some tweaks to make it easier for the average player to get the program to run, and we are trying to nail down more trial and error in options of what makes it better.
Stay tuned...
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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There is now a work around for XP. Unfortunately this will not work with Decal.
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?p=424391#post424391
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johnsonDON
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what is the "chat window workaround"?
i want to use decal ...
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Chef_Wubbie
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The chat window workarounds -
1 - raise the main chat window by 3-x lines, this changes the camera view by enough to move the skyboxen up out of visual range.
2 - Maximize the main chat window.
3 - Try putting one of the floating chat windows over the flicker and make it opaque.
4 - tap 2 on the keypad to alter the camera angle.
these do not always eliminate the skyboxen, but they can make it a bit more tolerable.
as always YMMV
wubbie
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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FYI: I put my AC account on hold due to Fallout 3 . If anyone needs help with the batch program, please contact me through here. I am keeping an eye on the official forums, but I cannot post there for the time being.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - if i see anything good I'll pop in and post it...
wubbie
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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Okies we've now had a report that the "chat window cheat" has stopped working for at least 1 person.
I'm hoping this is an isolated incident and not a sign of more problems coming.
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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That's interesting. I've said it before: the chat window trick never worked for me. I wonder why it works for some and not for others.
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David_the_Bear
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
Okies we've now had a report that the "chat window cheat" has stopped working for at least 1 person.
I'm hoping this is an isolated incident and not a sign of more problems coming.
If your talking about raising it up just a touch, then it does still work (least for me). I used it this morning.
DtB
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - don't you run at some silly high resolution?
I wonder if the chat cheat only functions on resolutions lower than X x X....
I'll have to compile a new list...
wubbie
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126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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FyrieWindwalker
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1680x1050 which is now a very common native resolution for LCDs. It could very well have to do with resolution. Moving the chat window may not push the viewable area up enough for higher resolutions.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Thats what I am thinking Fyrie...
Is the screen is just to big for the "block" to get pushed off...
I wish we could find a better way
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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So in an interesting move there is a hardware reviewer who is taking the whole drama of the Nvidia bug to the Nvidia PR people. I've armed him with the fact that its the "Hardware TnL" that they rolled into their Unified Shader thing that is causing ALOT of grief for end users. The suggestion hopefully will be made that Nvidia get off their collective behinds and just add a per game switch for disabling "Hardware TnL". This is a far simpler solution than Nvidia trying to find out where in the code the bugs are for all of the different games having problems. If this actually came to pass, it would be a huge benefit.
Lets keep our fingers crossed.
wubbie - the stealth bump... I mastered it
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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_Superconductor_
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GPU - Asus EN8600 GT Silent 512 meg (Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT)
Driver - Nvidia 7.15.11.7519
Mem on GPU - 512meg
OS - Vista 32 home basic
Bug - YES
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FyrieWindwalker
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Thanks for the update Wubbie! Please keep us informed if you hear any inside dirt.
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Chef_Wubbie
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_Superconductor_ - we currently have no "permanent" fix in place.
You can try to cheat the bug...
Fyrie has written an awesome batch file for use with the program 3DAnalyze.
If you don't run decal this is a good choice. (you will have to hunt the thread over on the Turbine Fourms to find it, I never remeber to make stickies to it)
Otherwise you need to move up the main (bottom) chat window 1-x lines and it usually can push the bug up off the screen so the game is playable.
We are still working to try to find a real fix via Nvidia or Turbine.
wubbie - its a little problem, only affects a couple people, I can fix this in an hour... *giggle*
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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_Superconductor_
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Thanks Chef, the error for me is restricted to the sky, it only ever takes up 1/3 of the sky and it only appears maybe 25% of the time I play, so I can deal with it for the most part. I don't run any 3rd party apps, decal etc. so maybe Ill try that fix if it really makes me nuts.
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Chef_Wubbie
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_Superconductor_ - if your not running TPA, then Fyrie's awesome batch file is for you.
Its a quick fix and it 100% drives the evil skyboxen away.
You set it once and forget it.
wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker
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Bump!
I'm still hoping Turbine and NVidia will get this issue sorted out soon. C'mon already!!!!
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SuperBuff
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tag
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Chef_Wubbie
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bad wubbie forgot to come and do his bumps...
anyways... no news to report.
I compiled the links the the batch file and 3dAnalyze in the thread on the Turbine boards and i keep bumping it so people can find it.
still hoping something will change somwhere
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Maglett_of_FF
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I've merely stuck with ATI based cards, not solely for this bug mind you, but it contributes.
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Ashake
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I'm running XP Pro SP3, Intel Core2 Quad, NVidia 8800GT 512 - and I have the "flicker" you refer to. Card is in a Dell Vostro 420 system.
I've only noticed this problem with the pack open and out in an area where there is a lot of unobstructed sky. I don't have the visuals set for a "widescreen" view - I have the slider ingame roughly at the 50% mark for field of view. I've never seen this bug in the sky when I have the pack closed, nor have I seen it in buildings - seems to be strictly open sky related in my system. I'm running the original driver that came on the system, was waiting to see if a specific newer driver would make any appreciable difference (date 10/19/07, version 6.14.11.6736). I installed AC from the ToD CD as I had not yet upgraded to IE7. I run Decal and several plugins.
As others have mentioned, I've not seen this as a full sky problem, normally either left or right corner. This Vostro was a replacement from Dell - the prior system I had (that died) had an ATI 3450 HD 512 in it, and no flickering in the sky.
Not sure if you are still trying to update info, but thought I'd share this ...
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Chef_Wubbie
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Ashake - we've located the problem as being directly related to Nvidia moving away from true hardware TnL to emulated hardware TnL rolled into the cards. This change happened when the Nvidia Series 8 was introduced.
Nvidia and Turbine have been made aware of the problem, no news on the horizon yet.
Over on the Turbine Forums I keep a thread similar to this one bumped that contains all of the player created "workarounds" to deal with the bug.
If you don't run decal or vista there is an elegant solution that fyrie crafted.
If you do run decal the solutions are less elegant but in "MOST" cases are effective.
Sorry you have a bugged card, but hopefully one of the existing workarounds will make your game experience more enjoyable until there is a final fix.
wubbie - wow I would say I sound like a Turbine CSR, but I actually solve problems....
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Ashake
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The interesting part of this mess is that in the release notes with the latest driver (a couple weeks ago) many other games have had issues that have been fixed for the most part. Many are reported as "non-NVidia" issues - perhaps we fall into that category
There are ways around it in gameplay ... all depends on your camera angles and view. If it starts to bug me too much, I'll just swap the card out - simply isn't worth the headaches involved, even though I like the card
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Chef_Wubbie
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Ashake - for "normal" screen resolutions... (under 1650 i think) simply maximizing or raising the main chat window a line or 3 tends to be enough to push it off the screen. For people playing AC on really big screens this isn't much help.
I don't care who has to take the PR nightmare and fall on the sword to say ok its my fault, I just want to see this fixed.
Nvidia is up to the x Series and this bugs been around since Series 8 rollout... one would have hoped that someone would have taken the time and located this error... oh wait I did... and I play on Series 6 cards...
Hey Fyrie are you lurking?
I was poking at registry keys you can add/modify in DirectX and its exceeded my google search powers to investigate.
Do you know or have a contact who knows DirectX?
http://www.pctools.com/guides/registry/detail/1126/
"Open the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Direct3D\Drivers] key and change the value of SoftwareOnly to "1" to use software emulation or "0" to disable it. "
I can't figure out what software emulation we are talking about here...
If it let DirectX ignore the card features and do it itself this would be usefuls... of course if it doesn't nuke Decal at the same time its even more useful. We are in that dangerous ground where I only kinda understand, but I can't crash test gerbil myself to see if it does something good or just another red herring.
If anyone has some insite into DirectX feel free to speak up...
wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker
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Sorry, I don't know anyone who programs against DX. That registry setting should be easy enough for someone to test. It does seem a little vague tho to what it does doesn't it?
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-7Dust-
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good enough reason for me to upgrade
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Fyrie - i typed this amazing post the other day and somehow the board ate it
it was my standard witty reply and something ironic about not being able to find documentation, just 20 webpages with the exact same vague post...
So is there anyone with a bugged card and the understanding to use regedit?
Need a crash test Gerbil...
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Endy_The_Unsane
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I could, but it wouldn't be until next week.
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That woudl be awesome Endy..
Its a short test
turning on the switch in the registry and turning it off.
It would be nice to find a more elegant solution to this problem until someone actually fixes the broken product
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
Fyrie - i typed this amazing post the other day and somehow the board ate it
it was my standard witty reply and something ironic about not being able to find documentation, just 20 webpages with the exact same vague post...
So is there anyone with a bugged card and the understanding to use regedit?
Need a crash test Gerbil...
I cant find the Direct3d part...............
DtB
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Tried it, it failed. AC won't even start without hardware acceleration, it's a requirement since ToD.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Thorfinn_Sigurdssen - so it does something to shutdown hardware acceleration... okies... Thank You for trying and repoting.
well we now know what it does at least...
I wonder how many other options are buried in the DirectX Codex of secrets...
Of course I think this might never work because I'm not sure if Decal requires Hardware TnL to work its voodoo.
*slams head into the desk*
wubbie - windmills... i joust them...
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FyrieWindwalker
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I noticed that NVidia is starting to put out pixel shader 4 cards. I wonder if the bug will still be in those. I guess only time will tell. I saw that Agnari speculated that the GTX 250 series is affected. Has there been confirmation?
Edit: I see that Aerkgon said the GTX 280 is bugged. Damn!
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Chef_Wubbie
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The biggest kick in the butt about all of this is, to us its a "bug". It might not actually be a bug. It could be that Turbines code is using some feature of Hardware TnL in a nonstandard way. The problem is a few other games did the same thing, everyone else who uses 3dAnalyze become examples. Nvidia might have written a strict Hardware TnL emulator when they moved it to the shader engine, and left out some of the commands other people were still using. Since nearly all of the "bugged" games are in gaming terms ancient, they might have assumed no one would use that feature set any more.
Turbine won't give us any clue about how the sky is rendered, somedays I wonder if anyone on staff actually knows.
The voodoo that is Nvidia isn't about to reveal the codebase for Hardware TnL and the shader based "Hardware TnL".
This would be so much easier if we could have a list of what Hardware TnL did and that the shader TnL does. Just 1 by 1 go thru the features till we find the 1 piece thats missing...
I so wanna slap both sides somedays...
wubbie
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FyrieWindwalker
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Chef_Wubbie posted:
I wonder if anyone on staff actually knows.
Or cares.
I hate to say it, but I've lost a lot of faith in Turbine over this issue. They've known about the issue forever. They've known the issue is hardware T'n'L for months now, and they haven't said squat. Although it doesn't "break" the game, I think will keep new and old players away. An update on the status of the fix, or if there is going to be a fix would be a nice gesture.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Fyrie - I had pointed this out in my first post over on http://acforsaken.com/
Even if that update is we dunno anything new, its more tolerable than the silence.
blah
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agnari
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have you checked out V-I's thread on a software fix to the skybox bug here on the utilities board?
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FyrieWindwalker
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Wubbie,
I just saw Blendarus' post on the official boards about running the two cards at once. That's funny. The beauty of it is that they both use the same unified driver. That puts even more suspicion on the actual on-chip implementation. That being said, I still firmly believe it's a Turbine fix. They are doing something funky. Most of the compatibility issues with Nvidia are widespread and well known. This is the only time I've ever seen this bug.
On a related note, I just got a CRT monitor, so I may come back using my 6000 series card since playing in my LCDs native resolution won't be an issue any more.
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Chef_Wubbie
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Well there is the other option I am chasing in my mind that the sky textures got updated.
I keep having "issues" around new textures even with my 6600's...
Series 8 unified the Hardware TnL into a software on board thingy
But on a Series 6 I can reproduce a "similar" glitch
Hurm when i get time I should load up VI's fix for my machine and see if my lightpost is still flipping out...
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Are there any screenshots or video of this other glitch floating around?
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I had gathered all of the screenies I encountered, and someone has sent me a link to a video once.
I might still have them but have to dig thru about 4 TB to find them...
There were some screenies in the Nvidia thread someone linked to earlier...
I keep looking
edited bit -
Fyrie - check PMs...
The texture tearing (someone elses term) on the light post is VERY similar to the skyflicker, just in a much more constrained spot with darker texture.
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So I asked over on the ac boards and a series 8 user said they to had the post shimmer...
and then I was pondering...
"See what boggles my mind about this is I run Series 6, No Skyboxen but I do get the Post shimmer.
I wonder if someone updated a sky texture, blue clouds whatever, and thats whats causing the flip out...
Replacing a bugged texture with a nonbugged one would be...
hurm...
Its way beyond my tech level, but once upon a time people were able to pull textures from the dat files... and in some cases replace them... but I think all of that got abandoned pre TOD....
So we woudl need -
- the ability to "hack" the .dat file (stop looking at me like that Turbine employee)
- Which texture is used for Sanamar Lamp posts to know which one to change
I'd settle for them to be candy canes at this point. But a known "old school" texture used in replacement and the shimmer stopping means the actual fix is a simple texture replacement.
A successful result would be a proof of concept... and that means it SHOULD be in the next patch...
Now to figure out how to make this happen...."
This is WAY outside of my scope, and the people will the skills are prolly busy on other things...
but I live in hope
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Chef_Wubbie
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OY!
You, yes you... the one with the skyboxen bug....
Head over to the thread on the Turbine forums.
Lothnar has provided a modified dat file altering sky elements.
We need some people with the bug to try this swap to see if it stops it.
Remember to turn off your fixes, and please post results of testing.
If we can squash the bug with texture replacement, this means the possibility of not having to use outside fixes anymore.
It also moves the chances of Turbine doing something way up. Replacing textures pretty easy compared to digging thru code. And if they don't want to, it seems we have the tech to hack the dat files ourselves again.
Go forth and test!
wubbie - so very very geeked that we might have a new path to a solution!
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Like a bad penny, the post that would not die!
MUHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Anyways, I dug this up with good reason.
Sev (you know offical works for Turbine Sev with a logo and everything) has said they think its a timing issue, and will be looking at a way to try to correct it in the code. If they are unable to they will be adding an option to force SW rendering. (for people not keeping score the external program fix the and Virindi fix both trick the game into using SW rendering) This option would mean no more external fixes required. Trying to see if the FPS hit would be as bad, but well Turbine doesn't seem to respond to me... I might be "bothersome" expecting them to fix a bug that has been in game this long. VI will be along shortly to explain how this is just Turbine doing what "we" (big collective royal we) did in the first place, and calling it their fix. (waves at VI and giggles)
The updates, I stay on them.
wubbie
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MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Chef_Wubbie
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OY!
You, you with that bugged card... head over to the Turbine Forums...
Sev is actively looking for input from people suffering with the bug to track down where its hiding.
There are a couple things Sev needs bugged people to do to confirm a hypothesis.
The player you help, might be yourself.
wubbie
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Registered:
Jul 11, '02
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Subject:
Nvdia 8800 Flicker Bug
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As of this patch the Bug is thought to be GONE.
Please disable any "workarounds" your using and check.
Please report any problems to the thread on the Turbine Offical Forums
wubbie
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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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