Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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Subject:
LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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A new version of LifeTank XI 11.7.0.8 has been released! This is the first release since Paraduck's departure from the dev team. Hopefully this is more inline with what the community would like. Yes, I did ask around first on my home server 
I will leave this update a voluntary download for a week. Will more than likely force the update on 9/8/07.
Changes made in 11.7.0.8:
----------------------
**Log On Death re-enabled on all servers (sound still removed)
**Log On Unfriendly Detect and Improvements re-enabled on all server
**Unfriendly Detect still plays a sound (all servers), but the sound has changed and might change again in the future. This is to merely get your attention of your surroundings, it is NOT meant to "wake you up" if you are unattended and could possibly be changed again in the future to a quieter sound.
**Authentication Server 1 problems fixed. This was not a client error, but fixed at the same time.
**Installation file size reduced to 2mb. Hopefully this helps our dialup users.
**Early testing shows plugin response in-game seems to have increased.
**EULA Updated. I am not doing to pursuit trying to stop every single possible plugin or script from evading our EULA by disabling Lifetank upon detection. The feature is still available to me, but for the time being only Skunkworks is going to remain banned. Quack and ACTools are released. However, if you are caught using any of these plugins I find questionable that may break the EULA, I may reserve the right to refuse support because of these reasons.
Thanks!
C'relic of MT
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S-W-I-F-T
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Thank you!
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Swift Avenger has discovered Greaves of Leikotha's Tears!
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Shon_Tsu
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Out of interest, why ban skunkworks but not ac tool?
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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I believe ACTool has more viable and legit scripts that can be used with it that (to me) outweigh the bad ones. Everything I've been used in Skunkworks is either a UCM tool or some sort of alarm tool that I would rather not be used with Lifetank.
I know the same can be done in ACTools, but there's no way I can spend what little time I have hunting down and locking those scripts/plugins out. I'm trying to discourage LTxi as a standalone plugin to be used for UCM purposes. Anything you run alongside it that may be used to go around the measures I've put in placed can probably get you banned by Turbine, and won't be supported by me if something breaks.
C
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ben1105
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Meet me in my basement in 10 minutes. 
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Shon_Tsu
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OK, just wondered because like you said they can both be used for the same purposes.
I have a handful of SW scripts that I and my guild use. They're not designed to run alongside LTx, but its just a hassle to have to log to desktop to load/unload skunkworks when we want to use them.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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Subject:
LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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You don't have to.. just log out of game and disable LT, enable it and log back in... or just enable them both, LT will auto disable itself.
SW can be removed from the list in the future without another client release when/if I feel it's not a problem any more. Right now, I'd rather Lifetank not be enabled around it for the time being. That's the only one I'm going to force right now though, as the others have been lifted.
C
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Shon_Tsu
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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So you can have the SW console running, but just not enable the ig plugin?
Oops, should have tried that I guess. I always think of SW as the whole thing.
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Churi-ya
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Bravo!
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If you want someone to be politically correct, I suggest not engaging me in conversation.
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Gones_Mage
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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nice work!
Lets keep AC alive not help in killing it!
Kudos to you!
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Gones
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30x275!
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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**Log On Unfriendly Detect and Improvements re-enabled on all server
What are the improvements? Thanks
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-Bub-
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Hey, is there anyway we can enable the irc commands, and takecontrol commands of the macros? Even when your UCM checked, the admin still asks you to jump ingame, you cannot do this from irc, so is it possible to enable those commands again?
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Persephony
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Thanks!
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TLOC
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spalthi
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Thanks for making the changes. They seem to be a pretty good compromise.
I was thinking about how half the time I have lifetank turned ON but in a PAUSED state, so that I can manually run around and fight, but lifetank keeps track of the DoT and xp/hour, etc.
Is it possible to disable only *partial* functionality if the macro detects something like skunkworks running, or an authorization failure? Specifically, disable the section of code that targets and kills things, instead of the entire plugin. That way your plugin can still be used by people who are using other plugins that may or even may not be doing something you approve of, but at the same time, prevent your plugin from being used as a UCM platform.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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Subject:
LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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IRC remote control commands will more than likely never be added back in. It's unnecessary if you're using the plugin directly and if I remember correctly, it could jump for you.
Basically the unfriendly detection improvements were that it will still detect and play a sound alert even when the plugin is not turned on (enabled in Decal, but stopped or paused in this case). It will also log out even while not running or paused. Before I don't think it would log if it was paused or stopped.
Keeping track of xp/hour while paused would probably be fairly difficult given the way the plugin is designed. It calculates your incoming XP/Hour and totals based on the time the plugin has been running. When you hit pause, the timers stop, and the calculations stop too since the time isn't moving.
I cannot disable parts of the plugin based on "unfriendly" plugin detection, nor can I detect what scripts Skunkworks currently has loaded, nor can I tell what actions that script is doing. In this case, it's either the whole plugin or not at all.
C
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Saloben_ign
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Subject:
LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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When spk was making ltx he used a lot of the code from skunkworks to help him build ltx. He gave credit to the author of skunkworks for helping him during the development stages. Now you can't use ltx if skunkworks is active. That just doesn't seem right to me.
Quote from the readme that was in the last source that spk released to the public.
A special thank goes to the Decal dev team for their quality work
and support on Decal through all these years, Turbine for such a
fantastic game, and all my friends at Darkside-Online. I'd also like
to thank the author of SkunkWorks for releasing his source code, which
has proven to be a valuable help on several occasions throughout the
development of lifetank. Finally, a particular thank you to Sweet Mary
who made LT what it is today!
- Spk
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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That's nice and all I guess, but I've never used Skunkworks to script, nor have I even seen the source of Skunkworks either.
I mean, he used Skunkworks to help build Lifetank... Skunkworks wasn't being used to help Lifetank run while in-game.
Either way, my choice wasn't influenced by what's happened in the past by/to the previous developers. Right now I feel it's too much of a possibility for something in SW to be used to UCM and probably keep someone IG for days on end.
I guess I can understand where you're coming from, but don't really understand how it would apply to me now. Those guys have long quit AC and developing the plugin and the only help I've had so far is from Para and Replex and we've always given proper credit to everyone before us. So I'm temporarily disabling Lifetank due to Skunkworks because it can be abused... is that such a bad thing?
It may be dropped sometime in the future, but right now I still think it needs to stick for awhile.
C
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Saloben_ign
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Lets look at it from the standpoint of a student writing a term paper. Someone created the outline, formed the main arguement or statement, and made the summary. Then another person comes along and rephrases some of the sentences and changes the outline a little. Does that still constitute plagerism and give no rights to the original author? Not only are you not giving skunkworks credit you are saying that skunkworks shouldn't be associated with ltx at all.
Edit - sorry that should of said given credit to the original sources not author.
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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If he is saying it may be lifted later (the ban on SW) than why don't we just quit talking about it. It is better that he is saying for now it will be banned, but later it may be lifted other than saying the ban will never be lifted. My 2 cents.
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Saloben_ign
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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you can't "ban" your original sources, you still have to give them credit.
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Never! Never! Never! take a sleeping pill and a laxative at the same time.
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spalthi
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Keeping track of xp/hour while paused would probably be fairly difficult given the way the plugin is designed. It calculates your incoming XP/Hour and totals based on the time the plugin has been running. When you hit pause, the timers stop, and the calculations stop too since the time isn't moving.
I cannot disable parts of the plugin based on "unfriendly" plugin detection, nor can I detect what scripts Skunkworks currently has loaded, nor can I tell what actions that script is doing. In this case, it's either the whole plugin or not at all.
---
Not true. Hit 'Pause', and the timer keeps going. The plugin stops targeting and killing and buffing and taking any "actions" but it still counts down the rebuff timer and increments the running timer. I believe the damage over time stats keep working to although I'm not 100% on that right now.
I wasn't referring to detecting specifically which plugins were working. You already block on Skunkwords being detected. My thought was instead of blocking totally, wrap the functions that call the action of targeting and killing into the authorization check. That way people could still use lifetank for other purposes other than actual combat and still be able to run skunkworks. You still get to hold the "high ground" and keep lifetank from being used for UCM.
It's a non-issue though, really. I'm impressed you've remained calm through these changes and have still been willing to consider opposing points of view. Thanks for that.
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spalthi
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you can't "ban" your original sources, you still have to give them credit.
---
Not necessarily true. Writing software is different than writing an essay in that the important factor is what type of license the original software was released under. Software can be released under a myriad of different licenses and some of them do not require attribution to an original source/author. I personally write lots of software that gets used across the world and keep stuff like your water treatment systems running. The companies I sell the software to are under no obligation to give me credit for the original code if they modify it, even for a re-sale, but are prohibited from duplicating the code for multiple projects. The end user of my product has no clue who I am, and probably believes the company they purchased it from is the author -- but this is not the case.
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Lil-Blub
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Thank you for giving me "choice", I appreciate it Crelic' of MT!
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TheMasterKato
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Thanks C' your work is greatly appreciated!!!
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yaroz_vn
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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you can't "ban" your original sources, you still have to give them credit.
-----------------------------------
Ummm.. yes you can. He did it already.
Also, he can still give "credit" in the documentation.. but that doesn't mean that he has to allow the program to run in conjunction with his.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Just a FYI/bump.. version 7 will be disabled tomorrow (Saturday). Be sure to get the new version to prevent any interruptions in your gameplay =P
C
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k3ny
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Seems a little strange to me that on one hand you help ucming by adding log out on death/ unfriendly players, things that would only be used by the player when they are AFK while disabling skunkworks/log out on low components and all irc functions to try to deter UCMing.
Could you please explain that?
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Lil-Blub
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[MOD-Edit]
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Lokkie_the_Fierce
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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k3ny posted:
Seems a little strange to me that on one hand you help ucming by adding log out on death/ unfriendly players, things that would only be used by the player when they are AFK while disabling skunkworks/log out on low components and all irc functions to try to deter UCMing.
Could you please explain that?
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Crelic_MT
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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k3ny:
I've explained myself about a million times now.
I'm trying to make the plugin more unfriendly to UCM, but it's not going to happen overnight. It's clear I don't want the plugin used for UCM and I've reserved the right to disable the plugin based on other plugins you are running, or if I feel you have abused the plugin itself too much.
However, I'm not an idiot. I know people will still UCM with it, and will use some plugin or write their own script to bypass some of the measures I've put in place. The way I see it, the log out options get the users OUT of the game and not necessarily help them keep playing. It's hard to UCM when you're logged out.
C
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RuthlessDT
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Nice update.
altho I still dont get why ur trying to do turbines job stopping UCM ;P
ur taking food out +envoy sparkers children's mouth because he doesnt have to do his job cuz you've already done it for free.
;p
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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I never said I wanted to stop UCM. I still don't think it's possible. To be honest, I really don't want to put in that much effort to stop it either unless/until they put me on payroll
For the most part I just want it known I don't support it and I'd like to put a few measures in place to make it more risky/difficult to UCM, but I'm not going to hunt each and every person/plugin down to ban them.
C
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RuthlessDT
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Thirst and ninjas make UCM difficult ;p
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< To be honest, I really don't want to put in that much effort to stop it either unless/until they put me on payroll >>
But you'll put in effort to give the UCM'ers more tools to use?
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k3ny
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edit: this is not the place to discuss the merits of ucming, pro or con. you will need to find another place to do that. please be sure to read poptarts thread concerning this. thanks!
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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ninjas don't make macroing difficult at all. You just have to know how to set up the plugin for them =]
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-Kiande-
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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Indeed, Ninjas are a piece of cake. It takes about 2 seconds to turn on the vuln command, disable the default damage, uncheck the green boxes in the mobs display, and switch the damages to acid for ninja and bludg for Olthoi. 
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Spoiled_Milk_TD
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LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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I'm having trouble with the new plugin (11.7.0.8) installing. It asks me for 11.7.0.2.msi (which I dont have and cant find on your site or through google). It always gives me the "network resource unavailable" error and asks to be pointed to the old .2 file.
Any help?
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Drakier
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Subject:
LifeTankXI 11.7.0.8 Released!
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You shouldn't install MSI files by clicking "run" from the internet.
You should always save MSI files locally and run the setups from there. You shouldn't ever "uninstall" applications by just deleting folders. Always go through Add/Remove Programs first, then delete the folder when you've done that.
You should hopefully be able to rename the 11.7.0.8 MSI file to 11.7.0.2 and then point the error at that file and have it fix the problem. Otherwise, good luck getting the 11.7.0.2 file and using it to properly uninstall.
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