Paraduck
Title: quantum mechanic
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locked, degraded to bash fest
In the next week or so C'relic will be putting out another release of LifeTank that should add back the "log off on ..." features. I'll let him explain in more detail when he gets the chance. This is a result of an examination of the impact of the latest release on the community. Unfortunately, I can't support these changes, so I wish C'relic and a number of potential new additions to the LTXi team good luck in their future releases.
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Saloben_ign
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You know your going to be accussed of throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get your way 
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Paraduck
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Did you just accuse me of it?  I don't have any ill-will over the decision... it's just not something that I'm comfortable supporting.
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cuban_cigar
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And the saga of the one true pvp game goes on.
When will we see its equal?
freedom of choice for all and loot to the victor, march on into time AC
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agnari
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if he is gone to put it back in, sure would be nice if he removed the option to turn on or off. MAKE IT ON, that way the *&^&*^%%$$$ ucm'ers are forced out fo the fellow when they die instead of lowering the fellowships xp by thier 5%
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Lil-Blub
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Freedom of choice should be the name of the game!
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-Eps
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Crelic, best flip flopper in AC.
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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A sIGN?
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OnceKnownAsAniker
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glad to see this wrong being righted.
thanks
kudos to C'relic
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ =   Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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Shon_Tsu
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Repect for Paraduck.
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kinslayer271
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Thx you
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Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti "Ok I deleted my computer" <Ramuh> http://vnboards.ign.com/banned.asp I can't stand hypocrites
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j_how44
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Thank you. I look forward to the return of lifetank with the log on features.
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Daggwood
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If you'd think out your updates before hand, you wouldn't have to boohoo and quit the team.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< Freedom of choice should be the name of the game! >>
Yup, you can choose to use a plugin or not.
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Paraduck
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Daggwood posted:
If you'd think out your updates before hand, you wouldn't have to boohoo and quit the team.
That's uncalled for. This idea was pretty well thought out, and only a part of what I wanted to do to make LT less attractive for UCM.
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ben1105
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I'm glad to hear it, and Paraduck I'm actually impressed by your resolve in leaving the team because you don't support log off features.
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Circus_Freak
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i dont use these option and i DO NOT want these option ON with no way to turn off
cant you just rerelease .6?
and thanks for hearing us out and keeping your kool toward some of the neg posts
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-Eps
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I'm sure you're 'leaving' Paraduck, just like you 'left' every other time.
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ChromeTaint
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And the saga of the one true pvp game goes on.
When will we see its equal?
freedom of choice for all and loot to the victor, march on into time AC
Actually Eve Online is a great pvp game too, the training times are a killer though 
Thanks Paraduck for all the work you put into LTX.
Chrome.
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Churi-ya
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Regardless of the posts here Para, I applaud that you guys have taken into account the feedback from your users. Just throw out the pro or anti UCM part of it, you supply a product, made some changes to the product, received feedback from the users of the product and are taking action. That's just good customer support.
Thanks.
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Daggwood
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"That's uncalled for. This idea was pretty well thought out, and only a part of what I wanted to do to make LT less attractive for UCM."
Are you considering the fact that the features you implemented did NOTHING to hinder UCM, and only hurt those that were not UCM?
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bearer1
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Lighten up dagwood.
If para hadnt taken responsibilty you be crying about that clown from england that turned his ucm program off.
Show some respect to someone that did upkeep on a tool you use.
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ElgarL
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-Foxy-
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lol elgarl
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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I think we all saw that comment coming :P
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< Are you considering the fact that the features you implemented did NOTHING to hinder UCM, and only hurt those that were not UCM? >>
How does not having a log on death feature hurt those not UCM'ing? I must have been missing something with all those hours I spent not UCM'ing.
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Dredlic
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To clear up the question for someone whose doesnt see how this affects non-ucm players. If there were UCMers in your fellowship, and they sucked and died the effect is the same as someone leeching xp and putting in none of the work. They get 0 xp once they die whether they log off or not, the only people whose XP is affected are the rest of the fellowship. Its just a pain that only the rest of the fellow gets less XP, and it doesn't affect the UCMers xp at all.
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Crelic_MT
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Just to hold off on any suspense that may be taking place with some of you, I will address my future plans and maybe give some insight on behind the scenes of what brought this on.
I will make a more meaningful post when I stop working 15 hour days. Probably some time next week to be honest. I will be working on a way to revert the changes made and how to reverse some of them while keeping some of the needed changes at the same time.
There will likely be a poll to pop up with some general questions about what everyone feels would be best. I'm still going to make a small effort to keep it unfriendly to UCM'ing, but I'm not going to make the attempt to make every single work around impossible. I don't have the time nor willpower to police something like that, and I firmly believe there's already a company that's supposed to police it anyway. My intentions will be clear, and the EULA will be update to reflect such. I'm not sure that I will force the EULA in the plugin any longer, but I'm still going to leave that option open... but I will still refuse and and all support if I feel you are violating it, similar to how Gouru manages his plugins regarding the It!s and LTx.
So, I do apologize if this is causing anyone and extra inconvenience as of right now but if you're staying at the keyboard, your grief will me that much lesser than those who aren't.
C
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-Eps
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flipaflopadop
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Shon_Tsu
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Theres a certain irony to Gouru's EULA banning the use of LTx at the same time as his plugins because LTx can be used for UCM, and LTx's EULA banning the use of other plugins at the same time because they can be used to assist UCM.
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Lil-Blub
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Just to hold off on any suspense that may be taking place with some of you, I will address my future plans and maybe give some insight on behind the scenes of what brought this on.
I will make a more meaningful post when I stop working 15 hour days. Probably some time next week to be honest. I will be working on a way to revert the changes made and how to reverse some of them while keeping some of the needed changes at the same time.
There will likely be a poll to pop up with some general questions about what everyone feels would be best. I'm still going to make a small effort to keep it unfriendly to UCM'ing, but I'm not going to make the attempt to make every single work around impossible. I don't have the time nor willpower to police something like that, and I firmly believe there's already a company that's supposed to police it anyway. My intentions will be clear, and the EULA will be update to reflect such. I'm not sure that I will force the EULA in the plugin any longer, but I'm still going to leave that option open... but I will still refuse and and all support if I feel you are violating it, similar to how Gouru manages his plugins regarding the It!s and LTx.
So, I do apologize if this is causing anyone and extra inconvenience as of right now but if you're staying at the keyboard, your grief will me that much lesser than those who aren't.
C
Yah it's interesting to see the response you get when everyone who used to supports you.. stops.
It's almost like a corporate hostile takeover. You screw with the public, the public screws you back.
I am glad to see the "next version" of lifetank being updated very soon. I look forward to un-restricted access to the plugin and the features that were intended from day one.
Have a nice day!
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< To clear up the question for someone whose doesnt see how this affects non-ucm players...>
And if the fellow leader isn't UCM'ing they could boot the UCM'er that died from the fellow.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> And if the fellow leader isn't UCM'ing they could boot the UCM'er that died from the fellow.
Sadly, they always are.
Awhile ago there was a plugin that, whenever a fellow died, sent a message like "Xyz, you died. If you are at the keyboard, reply with 'abc' to avoid being booted." Getting the UCM leaders to run something that does that would be best.
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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If Lifetank is banning other programs from being used, than why doesn't all the other developers ban lifetank from being used with their programs? Thats what I would do if i was a developer.
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-Eps
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because banning any plugin from use is pathetic.
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Churi-ya
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Could everyone just get over the pissyness and just appreciate the Lifetank Devs being responsive to our inputs?
You don't like Lifetank, don't use it.
You don't like UCMers and find one? Report him.
Quit tearing Crelic and Para's heads off. Wihtout lifetank there'd be a hell of alot more people sitting there with their eyes falling out of the skulls from boredom hitting "end" or "backspace" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And saying to hell with this, and quit.
Alot, I repeat ALOT of people use this for ACM as well.
Lighten up.
You're probably the same people that see a posted speed limit and NEVER, EVER EVER, not even by one mile per hour, NOT EVER, go over it. I mean, that's breaking the RULES! Can't have that. NOT EVER!
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.
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MT_Gouru
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"It's almost like a corporate hostile takeover. You screw with the public, the public screws you back. "
Ummm, I'm not sure what you're saying here.
How is the public screwing the Lifetank developers back? Refusing to use the software that those developers spent long hours on and released to the public for free? Demanding more and more from the developers and never being satisified with what they had been given for free?
What makes people think they are somehow 'entitled' to use another persons work, and entitled to bitch and moan about it if it doesn't do every little thing 'they' want. Plugin developers have NO responsibility to the vast legions of leeches out there.
If you don't like what C'relic or I release for free to the public, or don't like the restrictions placed on it, you are free to go create or commission the creation of your own. C# is free, there are lots of good books on programming, the decal interfaces are published and supported.
If you are too busy or too lazy or too stupid to learn how to do it yourself, then tough cookies. Shut up and take what you're given for free. It's not like any of the Plugin developers are making any real money for their work. Basically the only reward they have is their personal pride and occasional praise from the community.
Yet it feels like most of the community believes they have a 'right' to other peoples work, that thanks or appreciation is not required and that they have the right to make demands on the developers.
I dislike Tank programs, but I have nothing but respect for those Developers that actually step up and do something instead of just bitch about it on the boards.
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immortalbob
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gouru ftw
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Lil-Blub
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"It's almost like a corporate hostile takeover. You screw with the public, the public screws you back. "
Ummm, I'm not sure what you're saying here.
How is the public screwing the Lifetank developers back? Refusing to use the software that those developers spent long hours on and released to the public for free? Demanding more and more from the developers and never being satisified with what they had been given for free?
What makes people think they are somehow 'entitled' to use another persons work, and entitled to bitch and moan about it if it doesn't do every little thing 'they' want. Plugin developers have NO responsibility to the vast legions of leeches out there.
If you don't like what C'relic or I release for free to the public, or don't like the restrictions placed on it, you are free to go create or commission the creation of your own. C# is free, there are lots of good books on programming, the decal interfaces are published and supported.
If you are too busy or too lazy or too stupid to learn how to do it yourself, then tough cookies. Shut up and take what you're given for free. It's not like any of the Plugin developers are making any real money for their work. Basically the only reward they have is their personal pride and occasional praise from the community.
Yet it feels like most of the community believes they have a 'right' to other peoples work, that thanks or appreciation is not required and that they have the right to make demands on the developers.
I dislike Tank programs, but I have nothing but respect for those Developers that actually step up and do something instead of just bitch about it on the boards.
And C'relic didn't MAKE anything. He only put his own features into it and ported it. Lifetank X was a much better project than Lifetank XI. He is just turning it into something it was'nt originally intended to be. That's a fact. Warbot actually is better than this plugin for 10X the reasons. And it's not written in VB6.
Lifetank 1, and 2 and X was intended as UCM plugin. C'relic and Paraduck took that away. Yes, your right... it is the right of the author to do as he wishes with his own plugin. It's just irony that all previous versions to XI was UCM based.
Nuff said there.
Yes anyone can get a book out and program. Yes anyone can get the source code before it was ported to work with the new decal. In the end, Lifetank Xi has tons of errors and is very slow to respond, and could use some serious clean up work and porting to another laguage.
I personally think it sucks and I choose NOT to use it. That's opinion and choice.
However, that being said, I want to say Warbot is just better in most situations for UCM.
Enjoy for those who didn't know. For those that did, I am sorry we are wasting our time and energy on supporting this plug in. He's RIGHT, we should create a publicly owned version of Lifetank. Then all these arguments will go away! We would also be able to PM people who were looking for a less restricted version of Lifetank.
Who wants to start it? PM me. We can make it happen.
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MT_Gouru
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I just love how often people claim that some particular piece of software that doesn't work is better than a piece of software that does.
If working is not a requirement, then I can create the best AC macro ever seen.
However, there is a lot of noise about plugins that might exist someday, but until the developers actually accomplish delivering a working program out the door, all it is is a meaningless production of hot air.
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Dredlic
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Maddy_ACEDL 11945 posts
Date Posted: 8/31 2:51am Subject: RE: Changes to LifeTank
<< To clear up the question for someone whose doesnt see how this affects non-ucm players...>
And if the fellow leader isn't UCM'ing they could boot the UCM'er that died from the fellow.
- Yes, your comment is true, but this is the best case scenerio and it takes extra time and trouble, not to mention a fellow leader thats paying attention and at the keyboard to put these actions in motion. In most cases the leader is ucming also and cannot boot. Even if the leader is at the keyboard it still affects his game time as he is forced to police the group and worry about everything that is going on. SO regardless, in some form or another, if anyone is not ucming in the fellow their play time is adversely affected, while forcing the macro to stand at the lifestone does not hurt the offender at all. It kinda makes the people at the keyboard into "whipping boys" as a form of punishment for the macros.... its really hard to see the reasoning of without any explanation as to how this was meant to deter ucming.
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Crelic_MT
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The fact is, Lifetank was about to die when I took it upon myself to repair it. Xeon had quit and had no intentions of fixing the plugin. Yes, I'll admit my first intention were strictly to maintain, and that's IT. But I decided this could be my chance to better myself at programming and Para showed interest in helping so we decided to go into the project full steam.
I don't care (read, I really don't care) if Lifetank was originally built for UCM. All the past authors and contributors have quit AC and abandoned the plugin. It was left to the public to do as they saw fit, so we fixed it... and we decided if our names were going to be on the project, it was time for UCM to stop being abused. Use Warbot for all I care. It was built for UCM, UCM is against the rules and if you admit that, your stay won't be here much longer and you pretty much won't be welcome to use LifetankXI anylonger either. If you disagree with that, well, I don't care. Don't use it.
I'll agree some of the recent changes have been a bit "over zealous" and I want to meet the community in the middle with that. I do intend to make some changes, some of them reverting, but I'm still sticking to the non-UCM side of things. I WILL make it more difficult/riskier to use LTX in a manner I won't support, but at the same time try to make those changes invisible to the end user who actually uses the plugin correctly.
And to comment on Blub's post: I'm sorry, but if you try to start that drama about another "Lifetank" unrestricted version crap again, it will be shot down as trolling and trying to disrupt the boards. You were basically told no a year ago, and the answer is still the same. I'll dig up the old posts if you like. I'm not fighting about it, it won't be a discussion.
In conclusion, I want to come to terms with the community again. I want to try to bring what everyone as a majority would like to see without aiding or bringing back any UCM tendencies.
I'm tired, so I'm now going to sleep.
Thank you.
C
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Lil-Blub
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The fact is, Lifetank was about to die when I took it upon myself to repair it. Xeon had quit and had no intentions of fixing the plugin. Yes, I'll admit my first intention were strictly to maintain, and that's IT. But I decided this could be my chance to better myself at programming and Para showed interest in helping so we decided to go into the project full steam.
I don't care (read, I really don't care) if Lifetank was originally built for UCM. All the past authors and contributors have quit AC and abandoned the plugin. It was left to the public to do as they saw fit, so we fixed it... and we decided if our names were going to be on the project, it was time for UCM to stop being abused. Use Warbot for all I care. It was built for UCM, UCM is against the rules and if you admit that, your stay won't be here much longer and you pretty much won't be welcome to use LifetankXI anylonger either. If you disagree with that, well, I don't care. Don't use it.
I'll agree some of the recent changes have been a bit "over zealous" and I want to meet the community in the middle with that. I do intend to make some changes, some of them reverting, but I'm still sticking to the non-UCM side of things. I WILL make it more difficult/riskier to use LTX in a manner I won't support, but at the same time try to make those changes invisible to the end user who actually uses the plugin correctly.
And to comment on Blub's post: I'm sorry, but if you try to start that drama about another "Lifetank" unrestricted version crap again, it will be shot down as trolling and trying to disrupt the boards. You were basically told no a year ago, and the answer is still the same. I'll dig up the old posts if you like. I'm not fighting about it, it won't be a discussion.
In conclusion, I want to come to terms with the community again. I want to try to bring what everyone as a majority would like to see without aiding or bringing back any UCM tendencies.
I'm tired, so I'm now going to sleep.
Thank you.
C
"
And to comment on Blub's post: I'm sorry, but if you try to start that drama about another "Lifetank" unrestricted version crap again, it will be shot down as trolling and trying to disrupt the boards."
And you make sure that happens. Your threatening me. All I did is welcome the community into starting a new project. That is not saying I am making a version or anything of the sorts.
However, your whole comments of:
"I don't care"...
That's actually a really good thing! It shows where the loyalty lies. (In yourself and your own reasons...)
Dig up posts about something that was locked. I would LOVE to see a moderator get ban sticked.
I am talking about a whole other subject!
They are not 1 in the same. Let's extinguish the flame before it's a fire.
UCM is going to just be a fact in Asheron's Call. Look... about 1/3 of the populations of all servers is UCM. OR... they are both a UCM and then during the night they actually play and quest because they didn't spend all night trying to get the levels and such.
Your reasoning for locking down something you didn't create yourself... only improve upon is the cause of your own failures. That's why your retracting. You realize your not a hero right now, and your not helping... but hindering what the intentions of this utility was for. You act like you "own" all of it and no one else can come out with something else better...
Your wrong. It could easily be created over time. Shoot, it could take a year to make for all anyone knows. You don't care, and that's great. Loyalty should be in what a community want's when it comes to this decal plugin. It's really not all your work. You might have cleaned or added maybe 10-20% of the features...but you aren't the king. The real work was done by others who had the right visions.
I am tired, I am going to stop trying to understand you.
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Paraduck
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MT_Gouru posted:
However, there is a lot of noise about plugins that might exist someday, but until the developers actually accomplish delivering a working program out the door, all it is is a meaningless production of hot air.
Agreed. And I have a sense of deja vu...
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Lil-Blub
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However, there is a lot of noise about plugins that might exist someday, but until the developers actually accomplish delivering a working program out the door, all it is is a meaningless production of hot air.
If your confused, I can get you help...
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Meltr
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Well I just came back to AC after time off and I use LTxi ALOT.
But hell ill say it if I were you guys that are taking the heat and doing the upkeep on this plugin for FREEEEEEEE I would prob just DUMP the PLUGIN off the cliff for public use and run. LOL Anyhow Ty for being able to deal with these guys that trash you for keeping something up and working for FREEEEEEEEEE.
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agnari
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"...If your confused, I can get you help...
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Ex: Nuclear Bomb / Mage-Of-War / Confrontation's Mage (I don't play AC anymore.)..."
if you don't play ac why the F dont u stfu and go away. you are coming across as a complete jackazz with an axe to grind.
don't like whtat they doing, get a copy of the free scource ocde and make your own, but please stop annoying everyone one else
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-Kiande-
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Sweet!
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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>> Your wrong. It could easily be created over time.
If it's so easy, why don't you just go do it?
I think CRelic should shut down lifetank completely. After all, tons of people would quickly step up and 'easily' create a new one. It would be a win/win.
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Ashake
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A few comments ...
First off, one of the problems we have now with leadership of a fellow that we never used to have was the "auto pass" feature that will automatically pass the fellowship leader off to the last one recruited into fellow (if I remember correctly). This poses all sorts of interesting problems, as quite often the last one recruited is UCM (or, since many think sleeping NEAR the computer is not UCM, they are SCM - or Sleeping Combat Macro). If the leader of the fellow was ONLY handed off to a live player, this would be avoided ... or (playing devil's advocate here) if there was not a "live" player to hand it to, just disband it when you leave. After all, the rest are UCM or SCM, so who would care?
Secondly, when Lifetank originated folks, please remember Microsoft owned AC and could have cared LESS what was going on. When Turbine took over ... policy changed, as was their right. Personally I applaud CR and Para for attempting to make the program less UCM friendly, while doing their best to keep IN features many use and like.
Yes, I use Lifetank. I use it only on my mages, only when I'm physically at the keys, and only if I'm doing a kill quest in EO. Why only then? Only place I hunt where the spawn takes a huge toll on my hands/wrists, and the help is appreciated. I'm sure some of you have seen me in EO with my hunting partner. While it is true sometimes we choose not to answer you, rest assured we're there, usually yakking to each other or answering allegiance questions.
A couple things I've noted since this last release: LT still is sometimes running you completely out of mana (cause unknown); often it will completely stop doing anything at all if your health falls below 50% due to a nice ninja hitting you with a war or two; and most puzzling, it has taken offense again to some plugin and decides for no reason at all to log you out without warning, giving your lifestone a brief moment of cheer when you log back on. I didn't run LT at all today, and had no instances of random logouts (except for when my lovely dialup connection decided it was tired and wanted to rest). I have the health slider ramped up to approximately 75% ... should not have to be higher (never did before anyway). CR, if there is somethign I can do to help you track down the problem, please advise and I'll be happy to do what I can to assist
Oh, and for those folks who think my partner and I are UCM down in Egg Room? Please feel free to report us, we don't mind
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