Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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[MOD-Lock]
This has served it purpose. Locked to prevent further derailing/trolling
This was done in light of the strong feedback we've received.
LifeTank XI 11.7.0.7
Version 11.7.0.7
--------------------
- Added log on death back for DT.
- Improved unfriendly player detection for DT.
- Unfriendly player sound alert worked on white servers, which was a bug. It's been fixed.
--------------------
I would like to thank those who continued to hold a civil discussion with us regarding the previous version.
If you have any questions regarding these few changes and how it will affect you or your server community, please feel free to ask but please keep it civil.
C
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Furby_Grenade
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Furby_Grenade
Title: Batteries not Included
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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If only turbine employees had the same respect for their community as you guys did, this game would be much better off
props 2 you
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vn_quuz
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crelic is log on unfriendly players working for white servers? If so thanks a ton, if not why?
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OnceKnownAsAniker
Title: At Least I Got Chicken...
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just like i said, attention ......
they get the people all worked up, then have to swoop in after afew hundred posts, and get there backs patted for undoing what never should of happened.
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ =   Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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Furby_Grenade
Title: Batteries not Included
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*shrug* they made a mistake, and they fixed it pretty quickly
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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vn_quuz posted:
crelic is log on unfriendly players working for white servers? If so thanks a ton, if not why?
It does, but the sound and log off features are disabled for white servers.
OnceKnownAsAniker posted:
just like i said, attention ......
they get the people all worked up, then have to swoop in after afew hundred posts, and get there backs patted for undoing what never should of happened.
....
Nevermind. If I was here for the AW's, I'd do much worse.
What we did tonight has been discussed between us for awhile now. I knew last year that we would get that kind of uproar, but I honestly didn't expect this much of a turnout this time around. I believe I'll take Furby's advice next time and post a poll. I still think the response would be the same either way, but I guess it wouldn't result in 2 or 3 forced updates in one night.
With that being said, get off your soapbox.
C
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OnceKnownAsAniker
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i love how this release addressed not one person's complain from a white server.
keep up the good work.
maybe ill got back to DT since there special, but they have better plugins for over there then LTxi anyway.
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ = Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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blame_
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Crelic,
If you posted a poll about what to do on DT people who don't even play on DT would vote in it. For some reason, people who don't play on DT and don't want to play on DT care about how we play our game even though it's much different.
This is also the problem on the AC boards; people who don't play on DT are passionate about us not macroing or whatever even though they have no desire to play DT. No idea why, but it's true.
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vn_quuz
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Anyway You could possibly put the log off when detecting unfriendlys for white servers?
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Furby_Grenade
Title: Batteries not Included
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OnceKnownAsAniker posted:
i love how this release addressed not one person's complain from a white server.
keep up the good work.
maybe ill got back to DT since there special, but they have better plugins for over there then LTxi anyway.
considering if you die from LT and go to a lifestone, drudges aren't your only concern
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-Eps
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Crelic_MT posted:
- Added log on death back for DT.
- Improved unfriendly player detection for DT.
Hey look at that Crelic, you KEPT IN the features that you were bashing my plugin for having.
hypocrites, don't you just love them?
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Daggwood
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Wait, so UCMing is fine as long as it's on Darktide?
This is getting progressively more dumb as it goes on.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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Also, I have no way to tell who is from a white or red server here. We didn't remove that many functions, and we readded a few server-only functions with a few modifications to the original idea.
-Eps posted:
Hey look at that Crelic, you KEPT IN the features that you were bashing my plugin for having. Nice you hypocrite.
I did?
ISO Link with details. Otherwise I'd refrain from the namecalling/trolling.
vn_quuz posted:
Anyway You could possibly put the log off when detecting unfriendlys for white servers?
I'm still on the fence about this one. I know if you log off when an Envoy shows up, you're auto/insta banned... but if you're reported by someone, and that someone comes on to radar then you log, then Envoy's can't ban someone who's not logged in.
We're still debating that one behind the scenes.. like I said I'm still not 100% on which way to go with that yet, if we need to modify the original function or not.
C
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Furby_Grenade
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imo you should have "Leave fellow when dead" for the white servers, because once they are at their lifestone whats going to happen..big bad tusker going to swoop down from the skies and obliterate him/her?
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Crelic_MT
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Furby_Grenade posted:
imo you should have "Leave fellow when dead" for the white servers, because once they are at their lifestone whats going to happen..big bad tusker going to swoop down from the skies and obliterate him/her?
Actually, Para was trying to do that, but felt it was taking too much time for the moment. It's something we're continuing to figure out. He said he was pretty close to getting it in, though.
I'm glad I got that in a quote before he edited... talk about hypocrisies eh?
Dagg: Explain how logging out on death promotes UCM?
C
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Daggwood
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1.) No log on death hurts those not UCMing, as the fellowship member will still leech xp after they die. What do you want us to do? Have a member run around the dungeon constantly to see who is still there? It isn't always possible to use the fellowship menu to see who is still killing mobs, due to your program casting buffs and stamina to mana.
What does making them not automatically log off change other than being a hinder to those at their keyboards?
2.) No log on unfriendly detection causes those that are macroing quest mobs to hinder the experience of those questing.
Also-- the double standards you're applying by changing the rules back for Darktide are stupid as can be.
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Daggwood
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Crelic-- explain how not logging out on death discourages UCMing
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Daggwood
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And sure-- i'll bite. Logging out on death promotes UCMing on DT because it takes out one of the only true risks. If they are at their keyboard, they can log themself out. If they are not at their keyboard, they are UCMing-- and if your update was truly attempting to discourage this practice, then you would leave in the consequence.
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vn_quuz
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2.) No log on unfriendly detection causes those that are macroing quest mobs to hinder the experience of those questing.
^^ thats what im getting at crelic, It can ruin quests and such so people with at least some sort of common sense and kindness would turn it on if there hunting those while acm'ing.
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tamas
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ty. Log on death definitely is useful outside of macroing, it's saved me a couple times when I alt-tabbed out at a LS and got sidetracked by something shiny on the internet. And no, I'm not pretending that it's not also very useful for macroing.
Now unban AC Tool plz.
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kinslayer271
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^ O shut up
I don't even hunt macro anymore and I still think what they are doing is dumb.
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Crelic_MT
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Daggwood posted:
Crelic-- explain how not logging out on death discourages UCMing
It's not hard to see in the fellow panel who is there, and who isn't. Usually, no matter what level you are, what majors you're wearing, or how high your vitals are, when you're fighting a mob of bad guys, your vital stats move and juggle. That's not that hard to see, and that's also how many people now can tell if you're there or not. If you go for an extended period of time (15+ minutes I'd say is reasonable) and your vitals DON'T move whatsoever... I'd say with pretty darn good certainty they aren't killing anything and probably leeching. If they just recently died and aren't talking in /f, what would your guess be?
Right now on DT this option is still enabled. We're still debating the pros and cons of this feature on a white server. It's still possible for it to be changed back, but for right now that's how it's going to stay.
Feedback (the non-flaming or attacking kind) is the best way to get our attention.
The log on unfriendly is also that of a discussion between us, but a little easier to explain. Yes, you have a very valid point. However, if you are macroing quest mobs, you know when someone is in radar range of you, and you should be able to make that decision yourself to leave or not. There aren't that many reasons for needing an auto-logger in a quest dungeon if you're attending the game IMO.
Darktide is it's own beast. This function, for them, is mostly used to avoid death. I can still see how they should know if they're sitting there, but Lifetank's range does extend to that beyond the radar, so they can avoid the hassle of a confrontation by auto-logging then. Yes, I can see how it can be abused as well, but we feel the need outweighs the cons right now.
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DanaliCC
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From reading the LTxi boards, I got the impression that the "Log on Death" etc. feature was disabled to discourage UCMing. That would of been a particularly effective method on DT where you probably would of gotten blasted for an additional 35% vitae plus other penalties depending on what No-Drop Aug you were on. All it really does on the white server is annoy the others in the fellow when they can't boot the person camping the LS.
The two questions that I have are:
1) Could you add in a "Boot from Fellow on Death" feature so as not to punish the rest of the fellow, please?
Consider this answered, time lag in posting.
2) By the changes made to the way LTxi works differently on DT with version .7, were you swayed by peer pressure and popular opinion on your ethics behind the .7 version rather then sticking to what you believed was morally right by the CoC and leaving it at version .6?
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Daggwood
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Your line of reasoning is flawed Crelic. The player will most certainly know if he has died to another player killer-- and has a grace period in order to log out. Your support of 'no log on unfriendly player detection' as a tool not used by UCMers is offset by your plug-in's employment of auto log on death on DT.
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OnceKnownAsAniker
Title: At Least I Got Chicken...
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<< Feedback (the non-flaming or attacking kind) is the best way to get our attention. >>
actually it seems the best way to get your attention is to post a image of a fake plugin and renaming it Macro Assist
oh and while ur nerfing stuff midaswell get ride of auto fellows, i mean if you not macroing why have it, like para said in many posts, if your there u can just manuly recruit people, like his vassle's did when they macro'd lol
the irony of these guys just make me laugh, there trying to deter macroing on a plugin made for macroin, eithe way u try to cut it, its still a combat macro..
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ = Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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Daggwood
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"It's not hard to see in the fellow panel who is there, and who isn't. Usually, no matter what level you are, what majors you're wearing, or how high your vitals are, when you're fighting a mob of bad guys, your vital stats move and juggle. That's not that hard to see, and that's also how many people now can tell if you're there or not. If you go for an extended period of time (15+ minutes I'd say is reasonable) and your vitals DON'T move whatsoever... I'd say with pretty darn good certainty they aren't killing anything and probably leeching. If they just recently died and aren't talking in /f, what would your guess be?"
The fellow panel is not a true detector of non-responsiveness. The panel is at many times bugged. Also-- the auto-buffing of your plug-in causes mana to be used, and when too much mana is used, stamina is used.
Also, many ACMers do not chat in fellowship to begin with. I just don't see what good this does to anyone--- could you please explain as to why not logging on death is helpful to stopping UCMing?
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visionoftruth
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I have some respect for this decision but I still dis agree with the whole bit of changes....
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Crelic_MT
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DanaliCC posted:
1) Could you add in a "Boot from Fellow on Death" feature so as not to punish the rest of the fellow, please?
2) By the changes made to the way LTxi works differently on DT with version .7, were you swayed by peer preasure and popular opinion on your ethics behind the .7 version rather then sticking to what you believed was moraly right by the CoC and leaving it at version .6?
I've already explained most of that. Just look for the red name.
With the feedback we received a few minutes ago from the mostly-DT crowd, we felt the benefit outweighs the abuse factors. For the time being, it'll probably stay that way.. but it's going to be a constant discussion between us.
DanaliCC posted:
1) Could you add in a "Boot from Fellow on Death" feature so as not to punish the rest of the fellow, please?
2) By the changes made to the way LTxi works differently on DT with version .7, were you swayed by peer preasure and popular opinion on your ethics behind the .7 version rather then sticking to what you believed was moraly right by the CoC and leaving it at version .6?
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Daggwood
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My suggestion to remove UCMing with LTXI:
Add in a call for a random input every 10 minutes. If the call is not met within a certain amount of time, disable LTXI until the 'Run macro' button is again clicked.
If you truly wish to remove UCMing, then what would this idea hurt?
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OnceKnownAsAniker
Title: At Least I Got Chicken...
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^thats not an idea, elgar did that with eltank afew years ago.
leaving a fellow on death doesn't hurt anyone, it should be added back in.
i could careless if they log out, just get out of my fellow if u die.
having that option hurts no one, but the people that don't use it.
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ = Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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OnceKnownAsAniker
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hell put a timer in for leave fellow apon death, u die and don't respond within 10-30 seconds whatever you auto leave the fellow (or the leader can auto dismiss - if useing LT) and it doesn't hurt the fellow only thing that happens is ur sitting at the lifestone missing out on lvl'ing.
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Playing Real Life.. and Cross Fire when im bored. DKoBZ = Im a SiXburgh Steelers Fan, get over it! Unstable Carebear FF/DT & Hong-Kong Phooey LC (Sold) good auction, was close. -BT_DT
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RuthlessDT
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I'm curious as to why you even care what turbine thinks about ur plugins or how people USE IT THEMSELVES, to break a rule.
Will turbine ban the authors from AC?
Did they lay-off all the envoys (which are paid turbine employees) to enforce TOS in game?
Is this plugin for turbine? (they should be paying you)
or for the people who don't want carpel tunnel and arthritis by age 27?
sry if I sound like a dick always, but thats the VNDT conditioning. ;]
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Zedon
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Quuz, if you are ACMing why can't u just log yourself out if you are hunting a quest boss.
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Gordian3
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Log on detection helps free up a spot that a UCM has. If you are ucm'ing it is the considerate thing to do. Yet you'd remove that? Thankfully that's a trivial event to detect and logout. It just requires a minimal ltx-helper plug in. It reminds me of what I had to do with ElTank restrictions a few years ago.
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Shiba-X
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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C'relic,
I dont quite understand how you cant understand what I do with ACtool while I am ACMing with your plug-in
I load up AC ( LTx, Alinco, and ACtool)
I go to where I want to grind, be it peas/majors/xp
I load up the AC tool script for Tinking Cap, and try to learn the script that shein created.
you keep saying that I can run AC Tool, just not with ltx running. THIS is the problem I am having. I am not breaking any rules by turbine.. I am ACMing, while learning how the script was written. but because you guys stuck this, cant use XXXX programs, cause you can loop-hole the things we took out, I can no longer learn the script for tinking cap.
I dont think its that much to ask for me to be able to run another plug in ( In this case AC-Tool) while I am doing things perfectly legal in the game.. ACMing
I personally dont like some of the changes you did, will make the game harder for other ppl that dont UCM, but thats your choice as the upkeepers of the plug-in.. I personally think that if its good for one server, its should be good for all servers, but again, you guys are the ones upkeeping the plug-in. I DONT understand the limmiting of plug-ins being ran while ltx is running.
-----signature-----
Hi, I'm a poster with no social skills who spews constant insults. What server do I play on?Todd_Berkebile
Shiba-X 242 bow. Mahdi 251 Mage William Marshall 170somethig
Anita Heal tells you, "how r ya sweep pea"
Anita Heal tells you, "u intercepting my
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Just to note, I'm not sure where everyone got this idea from but, Quitting a Fellow on Death was and has never been a feature of Lifetank. When you Log Out on Death, the game automatically removes you from the fellowship as a byproduct of the log out action.
We did make an attempt to figure out how to quit the fellow upon death (as a enabled checkbox) but was not able to figure it out in a timely manner. We will continue working on this in the meantime.
-----
Shiba: I understand what you're saying about ACTools. I asked earlier to provide me with a legit answer to why you would need LTxi and ACTools launched at the same time. I was not being satirical, I was asking a serious question. I am not completely knowledgeable about what all scripts are available for ACT. The few I know about are either combat macros that do not conform to AC'S CoC or Tinker/Trade bots... both of which do not, or should not run at the same time as LT. That is why I asked that question.
Unfortunately we cannot tell what scripts you have loaded in ACT or SW. That is why we made the decision to block both. I wanted examples of legit and legal scripts that run in these to keep our ideas about what is proper and what should not be run simultaneously with Lifetank educated and not assumed. Obviously, right now they're assumed, and we're assuming the worst; that someone has/is/is going to write a script to bypass the work we've done over the past year.
C
-----signature-----
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Kmg_V
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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When I was running around hunting Gold creatures in Viss isle. I relied on LTXI's unfriendly player sound alert to avoid dragging mobs to other players. Now I have to keep an eye on chat windows since it is disabled on white servers.
Also, disabling LTXI when detected other plugin not approved by LTXI is overdoing the unUCMing LTXI. It also tells plugin developers it is ok to disable it's plugin when detecting rival plugins. For example, there are 2 mob detecting plugins, each plugin has some features other plugin lacks. now user may not be able to load both of them, plugin developers can force user to choose instead of improving their own plugins.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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That's nothing we invented. Gouru has said for years he doesn't want any CM's to run with his It! plugins and I fully respect him for that. So what do I do? I unload LT if I ever need to use any of his programs. It's his decision 100% if he wants to force the issue, and I'm confident he knows exactly how to do it as well.
It's not a new concept.. but you're probably right in the sense that we're probably the first ones to ever implement it in this manner.
Either way, if there was a "competitor" to us, why would you want to run both at the same time? I know people used to run ElT and LT together sometimes, but in the end I'd say they always went to one or the other after they learned the one they preferred. We would have nothing to lose or gain from that.
-----signature-----
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They are fast, faster than you can believe
Don't turn your back, don't look away
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Shiba-X
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Oh I understand you cant tell what is running on an ACtool script. This is kinda the base of my beef with the change.
I understand that you want to make UCMing harder by the changes in the program, and in a wierd way I can almost agree with that.( if your changes actually hurt the UCMer, not the others in the fellow) Taking the features away from the plug in, is your right as the ppl who run the program I understand that. BUT telling someone they cant use XXXX plug ins/programs because its a loop hole to get around what you took out of your plug in, I think is abit wrong and to be honest, makes it look like you guys are full of yourselfs.
You accomplished your goal. You did make it harder for people to UCM with your plug-in. IF they want to ucm, they have to have an entire other program running to do it. I personally dont see a problem with that. by saying this can be used this way so we are going to ban it, makes little sence. I know ppl who can make very simple plugins for decal that could get around this. Are you going to then ban these plug-ins because you dont like em? All that will lead to is like the early days of macroing in AC.. you have ppl who have, and ppl who dont.
-----signature-----
Hi, I'm a poster with no social skills who spews constant insults. What server do I play on?Todd_Berkebile
Shiba-X 242 bow. Mahdi 251 Mage William Marshall 170somethig
Anita Heal tells you, "how r ya sweep pea"
Anita Heal tells you, "u intercepting my
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_Kwb_
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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lol, yeah, people who ACM on DT will still want to log out when they die! That is totally for ACM'ing only! NO UCMING WITH LOG OUT ON DEATH!
and Furby, they are trying to make LTX anti-ucm, but only because they are still helping DT UCM saftely, you kiss ass, good job! Log out on death is totally for UCM only and that is the hipocrite part of this whole thread...good job messing up Spk's program MADE to UCM! I bet he'd be happy who took over his script 
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j_how44
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Please put log on unfriendly player detection back on the white servers.
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No_Sleep
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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This is very sad, cant remember the last day i seen 250 players online at once and u people need to "restrict" things?
i was gonna type of bunch of stuff but im not gonna waste my time, all i say i this type of bullcrap will add nothing to the game for anyone
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yaroz_vn
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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On the whole leaving fellow on death thing, I say you put something in there that says something like "if you are at the keyboard and want to stay in the fellow, type /ltx blah blah" where blah blah is a random series of charecters or something. Give them 10 or 20 (for slow typers) seconds to do it.
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RuthlessDT
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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I'm curious as to why you even care what turbine thinks about ur plugins or how people USE IT THEMSELVES, to break a rule.
Will turbine ban the authors from AC?
Did they lay-off all the envoys (which are paid turbine employees) to enforce TOS in game?
Is this plugin for turbine? (they should be paying you)
or for the people who don't want carpel tunnel and arthritis by age 27?
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Ferocious_Dinosaur
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Self_adhesive
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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i have a problem with the idea that on DT things are allowed, and if not on DT they are not allowed.
seems like extra programming... but what if someone wants to be red on a carebear server? i don't see why he should be penalized.
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-SA
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SunSetSam
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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With all the servers taking a long time to crash, I hope my bodies at my hot ls dont pile up too much, I ls at a hot ls as it saves me time to return to my dires hunting location. I dont mind it being hot as I dont ucm. Now with the servers crashing I expect I have a whole bunch of bodies and hopefully they are still dropping and not hitting the limit when no more bodies drop and every drop just disappears. I can't say I am happy. Ac only needs a little nudge in the wrong direction to get people to leave. Most people who leave, dont come back, some do but most dont.
-----signature-----
Sun Set Sam The Fool on the Hill
His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the maha- and -atman however and called himself Sam.
He never claimed to be a god but then, he never claimed not to be...
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Hangar-18
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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heres some sad truth..ive been playing for 7 years and in alot of aspects the game is getting old for me...i still love the game, but i basically quit my main server because it got boring
thing is, when i started there was also approximately 1500 <people> on per server, now there is less than 1500 <accounts> on for all servers combined...5 have around 150 <accounts> vt has 45 <accounts> dt being the winner with 400ish <accounts>...thats accounts, not people...i myself have 2 accounts
i personally have hated people macroing, but quite frankly, thats kinda all this game has left, seriously...you have an ok amount of live players still, but i'd bet 75% + push start when they go to bed.
the way i see it, <no offense> but if they get pissed off, then they'll quit and then noone would be around
basically, the only thing keeping AC alive is the ability to macro
the way it looked to me was, that you guys were gonna mess your plugin up just to piss off the community, thereby turbine being able to pull the plug and not hardly take any heat, as the remaining players would blame you guys
<shrug> thats how i saw it
Glad its back ...because irl sucks
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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>> 5 have around 150 <accounts>
Nice try. So, with 8 active accounts I currently hold over 5% of all active accounts on my server? Yeah, right.
-----signature-----
Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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-Eps
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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I'm like 14% of my server
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#dnn #og-ac http://tinyurl.com/ACDTChat Fastest 1-275 in AC history. Plugin Users: 100+ Buy Plugins Relogger, ValSalv, and AutoVendor(route trigger): http://bit.ly/ACaCAl [Trade] +Envoy Sparker says, "Rep check: Eps Levelin, PST."
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miscrient
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I have it on good authority that the LT authors are responsible for the current server downtime, to force those using older versions of LT out of game, so that they have to update to the latest version.
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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..
Sorry, but.. wtf? Did you just blame us for the game servers being offline?
I shouldn't have to mention the updates were done LAST night, and it doesn't log you off when we do it. It tells you the next time you log in.
C
-----signature-----
Don't blink, Don't even blink
Blink and you're dead
They are fast, faster than you can believe
Don't turn your back, don't look away
and don't blink.
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miscrient
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I'm guessing it's late where you're at?
Next time I'll use <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags 
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Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Oh.
Yeah, it's midnight. 
My bad.
C
-----signature-----
Don't blink, Don't even blink
Blink and you're dead
They are fast, faster than you can believe
Don't turn your back, don't look away
and don't blink.
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Churi-ya
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Rant on.
A few posters have a valid point. At this stage of the game, why do something that's sure to make even more people quit? It's not like the server counts are all that robust anymore, just the opposite - and we're getting to the point that people quitting is seriously effecting the bottom line. I like AC, I enjoy playing, many of my circle of in-game friends and I WILL lose contact when AC goes bye bye. Something like this could make the number crunchers decide it's simply not financially viable anymore and pull the plug. I usually hunt with Alinco (without the buffing add on) and Buff Me anyway - but I know plenty of people in my allegiance that RELY on Lifetank - many of who relied on El Tank previously, and before all the haters go spouting off about "if they can't play the game without macroing, let em quit" - guys, in all seriousness - WE NEED THOSE ACCOUNTS. We let em quit, we lose AC. It's a business after all. Look at AC2 - they built it, people came and quit and didn't come back. Turbine lost money and pulled the plug. Damn certain they'll do the same with AC1 when it starts losing too much money.
All this said - I played my first 4 years without Decal at all. For me, this change isn't going to hurt anything. But for many others, they'll up and quit. Elgar stopped his plug-in in hopes of intentionally hurting this community, and wanting people to quit to hurt Turbine financially. In many ways he succeeded. One of the few things that stopped many people from leaving, is they could still get there preferred play style using Lifetank. But now, and over the course of the last few months, you've been tweaking Lifetank over and over - making it less friendly to the mass of people who actually use it. Pro, or Anti Macro, that's what Lifetank is. A Combat Macroing Program. That's why we collectively use it. I know this change is not shutting down Lifetank. I get what you are doing - and ya know, I even applaud it. But it's way too late in the game guys.
Leave well enough alone is all I suggest. Let the people's who jobs it is to enforce the ToS/CoC be the ones to enforce the ToS/CoC. It's always been the choice of the individual player if he or she is going to abide by the rules, or cut corners. There's QUITE a few in-game vigilantes more than happy to spend ALL of their in game time running from one dungeon to the next and cry to the +Envoys that someone is UCMing anyway.
/e shrugs.
Rant off.
-----signature-----
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - DM for 28 Years!
Asheron's Call: Bleys Icefalcon; Monarch of Renaissance - on Harvestgain
If you want someone to be politically correct, I suggest not engaging me in conversation.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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<< At this stage of the game, why do something that's sure to make even more people quit? >>
Integrity comes to mind.
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No_Sleep
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Churi said what i ment to say. good post 
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Hangar-18
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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exactly churi
and yes, i guess that guy does hold 5% of the pop on his server. pick a slow time, log each one on consecutively and see what happens. pop goes up 1 for each acct you log in. sorry, but its getting too close to the end :o(
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Churi-ya
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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Integrity. Right. Honor. All good things. And as with ANY game, from Chess to Baseball to Croquette to Asherons Call - most will wholeheartedly play within the structured guidelines of the game. Conversely, people always look for an edge. Perhaps not ALL people. But human nature likes to cut corners. Why walk to the corner store when you can drive? Why drive to the corner store when you can get someone to drive you? Why go at all when you can get someone else to do it for you? Many players of AC see that 275th level and it becomes a number etched in their minds. They see other people with that level and want it for themselves. Or, and simpler, and possibly more understandable, they have skills they feel they NEED maxxed right now, be it for high-end content or for the PK scene. Most of our players do not honestly HAVE 12, 15 19 hours a day to sit and play. But to compete with those who DO have that kind of time, or who are lucky enough to have very active vassals - they need to find a way to be on and hunting, even though they don't actually HAVE the time to BE there. To max that melle D, magic D life and war magic. Or, to stockpile the xp for the various NEEDED Augmentations to help complete the Colliseum.
To compete.
To achieve goals that are frankly unachieveable in any realistic amount of time - while being able to balance a home life with family and friends as well as a career - or school.
People UCM plain and simply as the 191 BILLION needed to max a character out aren't going to come with hunting for golds or sitting in a fellow for a couple hours a day. They could, I suppose, if they HAD a couple more years. They UCM because to achieve their goals - Turbine - has given them little choice.
UCM is against the Rules. Good. Frankly, it should be. A person playing at the keyboard should have priority in a hunting spot or fellow over someone not there. I get it. That said, I understand why people feel they need to do it. Again, I will state - it's going to boil down to that individual. Either whoever it is will comply with the ToS/CoC, or they'll roll the dice and take their punishment if caught or reported.
-----signature-----
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - DM for 28 Years!
Asheron's Call: Bleys Icefalcon; Monarch of Renaissance - on Harvestgain
If you want someone to be politically correct, I suggest not engaging me in conversation.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Perhpas the integrity of people writing plugins factor into the equation? Nah, couldn't be that. If someone wants to macro then by-God someone should write a plugin for that person!
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Churi-ya
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I hear ya. But, we're a goal driven society. And many people DO use these plug-ins to ACM. IE they are at the keyboard, at times writing or surfing the internet, or even getting work done. To each their own I suppose.
-----signature-----
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - DM for 28 Years!
Asheron's Call: Bleys Icefalcon; Monarch of Renaissance - on Harvestgain
If you want someone to be politically correct, I suggest not engaging me in conversation.
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Darktorizo
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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First off, I'd like to say good job for the continued support of Lifetank and the addition/removal/upgrade of certain features.
I would also like to say good-bye to Lifetank as of this update.
Let me explain...
Once upon a time LT (11.7.0.0/11.7.0.2 Era) I had a Information and portal bot, it would greet people im my allegiance when they said Hi in /a or congratulate them if they leveled or achieved something great i.e. Augmentation or completed a big quest with a local or global message. All of this was done with LT via IRC. Then LT was updated so it would not run if it was not updated, but IRC worked fine, so I didn't complain. Then LT was updated to need you to Download and install the newest version as the old versions would show the infamous "red X" in the Decal screen. Thus brought the end to the auto greets and auto congrats in /a. I dealt with it and moved on. Then I started using ACTool to achieve close to the same, but ACTool can't recognize /a chat only local and /tells. But ACTool does so much more... I designed scripts to travel places, such as the mage shop for comps or gems for the portal bot, or to buff and aid in bod recoveries, all automatically based on a direct tell from another player.
Now here we are at LT 11.0.0.7 and it will not work because I use ACTools. LT's most valuable functions to me are: Fellowship healing, being a mage and having the ability to be a support role on quests. (Auto heal/stam/mana ect.)
So, without those functions available to me, I won't say I need them to play, but it was nice to be able to have one character auto heal, and use another character on a second account and grind out some xp. I have never UCMed but have ACMed as mentioned just above this.
I am sad to quit using a great plugin, but it is nevertheless that time.
Good luck Crelic and Paraduck on all future development of LT.
-----signature-----
Guinevere du Avalon - Level 275 - Mage (War\MeleeD Spec)\2 Hour Buff Bot - TD ~* Explorer of Dereth *~ GoArrow Database Updates (Full): http://db.tt/6UlVIW GoArrow Database Update Page: http://db.tt/9lJUeE4
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u_s_blues
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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churi-ya and hangar-18 have it right.
since ltx.2 went offline i personally have unsubbed 4 of my 5 accounts and have started playing a new game that will never be as good as ac is,but is still filling about 95% of my playtime with enjoyment. how long do you think it will be before my last account is unsubbed?
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Shon_Tsu
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Perhpas the integrity of people writing plugins factor into the equation? Nah, couldn't be that. If someone wants to macro then by-God someone should write a plugin for that person!
I think part of the complaints stem from the fact that someone did write a plugin for that person, then someone else took over the maintenance of it and told that person it was no longer designed to be used by them. LT began life as a pure unadulterated UCM tool. I dont really have an opinion either way, but I can understand why people are upset (no matter how hard they try to give other reasons).
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k3ny
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Sorry if the answer to this question is blatant, but I would like a serious answer to why detering UCMing on such a broad scale will help the game.
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kinslayer271
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I unsubed all but one account after they took over.
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Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti "Ok I deleted my computer" <Ramuh> http://vnboards.ign.com/banned.asp I can't stand hypocrites
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agnari
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"... fact that someone did write a plugin for that person, then someone else took over the maintenance of it and told that person it was no longer designed to be used by them...."
as i understood it, the author stopped supporting LTx and released copies of the code. those that acquired/asked for it weren't bound to keep the script functioning as is.
bottom line dont like them not supporting UCM for you, write your own DA.. script and STFU.
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kinslayer271
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^
Thats what my take it..but
Point is they are hypocrites, one version had to be taken down because it was hacked, admin controls were unlocked(Had envoy alarm). They denied this of course, even in the face of being caught and exposed. Now they go further and remove more things from people. Now if their track record is as it was before they have their own version with all these features still.
Don't push views on other if you don't follow them yourself. Hence they are hypocrites and liers.
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Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti "Ok I deleted my computer" <Ramuh> http://vnboards.ign.com/banned.asp I can't stand hypocrites
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Daggwood
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Crelic still hasn't answered my question regarding as to why Darktide has log on death activated.
It's used for UCMing-- anyone at the keyboard can log themself off while protected by the lifestone.
Hypocritical and unreasonable.
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-Eps
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And any reason he could use to defend it, could just be used the same on a 'normally' white server. Should be on all servers, or on none.
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#dnn #og-ac http://tinyurl.com/ACDTChat Fastest 1-275 in AC history. Plugin Users: 100+ Buy Plugins Relogger, ValSalv, and AutoVendor(route trigger): http://bit.ly/ACaCAl [Trade] +Envoy Sparker says, "Rep check: Eps Levelin, PST."
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kinslayer271
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wanna know why Dag and eps? CAUSE HE CAN'T!!!
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-Eps
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DT has an awful lot of coders, would be horrible for Crelic if he pissed them off and one of them took LTX and then updated it for the current decal.
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#dnn #og-ac http://tinyurl.com/ACDTChat Fastest 1-275 in AC history. Plugin Users: 100+ Buy Plugins Relogger, ValSalv, and AutoVendor(route trigger): http://bit.ly/ACaCAl [Trade] +Envoy Sparker says, "Rep check: Eps Levelin, PST."
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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I was just thinking that ^. Wonder if someone actually is working on the code.
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_Elwood_
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"Perhpas the integrity of people writing plugins factor into the equation? Nah, couldn't be that. If someone wants to macro then by-God someone should write a plugin for that person! "
someone did it was Lifetank till these "honorable" hypocrites got their hands on it.
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Hobo_al-Bargq
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I guess I am a little confused. Why did these two guys take over maintaining a plug-in if they are going to change features that the users like?
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agnari
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could it be, they are more insterested in the features THEY like and feel comfortable with supporting?
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_Elwood_
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the idea behind "maintaining code" is to maintain the old features and add new ones . not to degrade it. if they didnt like the features that the plugin had they shouldn't have even maintained it.
bottom line here is they are cowing to the anti macro crowd, half these anti macro people hardly play ac these days. mean while the ones pissed about the dropped features are the more active bunch. you log in to any world you will see 95% of the population are using a macro prog and are pro macro. times have changed and macroing is NOT the problem it once was/could have been. there is 6 top XP dungeons in the world nowadays. 3 eggs 3 potb. ive only ever seen the 3 eggs full. potb is always empty and no one should be bitching about not being able to hunt for xp because of macros. every guild on DT UCM's and that server seems to do just fine.
id encourage a new poll on the whole macro issue like the one before they banned UCM. ive stated this many times but ill do once more, anyone that has ever used a combat macro to hunt has atleast at one point UCM'd even though they might never think they have, ive seen people describe them self as never UCMing then going on to explain how they use LT and its a clear UCM use.
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Public Enemy tells you, why do you debuff my war im an OG mage.
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No_Sleep
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Hmm no reply from crelic or Paraduck after some of these insightfull posts.
I dont actualy UCM i just think its complete retarded that after taking over development and not actualy improving or adding much to LTX u somehow managed to find time in your bussy schedules to remove features. Perhaps you guys are trying to make money of this by selling a special version to clans? Im sure u wont make as money as the others but im sure u can make a litle pocket change...
PS: So who is working on LTXXX?
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Crelic_MT
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Just FYI: Some of us *DO* have real lives that involve working 12 hour days usually in the sun, then leaving work to goto school at night.
Not to mention we're still debating some of these behind the scenes. Be patient and keep in mind nothing is set in stone.
And no, I'm never going to charge or even ask donations for anything. That's why we've never asked, nor have donate links on the site.
Answers will come in due time.
C
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< bottom line here is they are cowing to the anti macro crowd, >>
Or they are trying to be respectful towards the rules of the game as set by Turbine.
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Striderlongshanks
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Isn't it amazing how many that are sooooo upset don't ucm?
SL
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kinslayer271
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OOO.o Crelic you act like your the only one that works and goes to school. I'll get your a little violin to play.
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Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti "Ok I deleted my computer" <Ramuh> http://vnboards.ign.com/banned.asp I can't stand hypocrites
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j_how44
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I understand you are debating the issues behind the scenes. I understand you are quite busy in real life. So until you have time to complete your debate, could you please restore the log on detect feature until the debate is over?
I have not played AC in days and am having withdrawl.
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_Elwood_
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"Or they are trying to be respectful towards the rules of the game as set by Turbine."
when UCM was not against the rules i did not see any anti macro person be respectful towards the rules. i just saw a lot of people complaining. you cant have it both ways. also show me where in the "rules" it says having a plugin that logs you on death, alarms when a envoy messages you / shows up is against the CoC of the game ??? there isnt any . only thing that is against the rule is to UCM , and even with out all those options stripped people can and will UCM using this plugin. those options dont even make that big of a difference to someone that is UCM. how does not letting someone log out after death on a white server make it any more difficult to UCM ?? it just doesnt heck on a white server i could careless if i logged out after death or stayed in game , the only people that will get Griefed are the people still in the fellow with me losing the xp share im taking in the fellow.
most people who ucm are in larger active guilds , guilds which have a person or two that know how to compile a source with minor changes to run right along LT. again these changes do nothing but "good PR" towards the 3-4 anti macro people that log in once a month .
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< when UCM was not against the rules i did not see any anti macro person be respectful towards the rules. >>
You missed me then. I stated that I thought that it was bad overall for the game don't I didn't knock anyone for UCM'ing at that time.
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u_s_blues
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this thread is getting stupid.
if ppl want to pay 13 dollars a month to go from lvl 1-275 without ever playing the game or knowing where arwic is,then let them. it's not like they are bothering anyone except the ppl that dont even play anymore.
maybe the thrill of the game that they are paying for is dodging the ban stick,who knows. let the program have as many features as it can hold,let the users decide how they want to use it,and let the envoys do thier jobs.
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Reeve_Sabrosa
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^ Agree with the above poster. Is UCM really even an issue anymore? I feel like I took a time machine and went back a few years seeing this heated debate and the LT devs reasoning behind altering LT to "prevent UCM."
This was only an issue when there was 1 of each dungeon, and the good xp dungeons were limited resoruces that were fiercely competed over. Now, if u want to hop on the static spawn leveling treadmill (and most manual players dont as there are many other better places to hunt where u get both loot and xp) u get 3 EOS, 3 POTB, and many other good xp dungeons. if you want to kill olthoi in EO or Lugians in PotB 99% of the time u will be able to find an un-macroed, unhunted spot in 1 of the dungeons where u can find all u can handle. So why are we screwing up features of a program that hundreds of people enjoy, to try to appease a small handfull of zealots whos presence or cause barely exists anymore?
Turbine has done a great job striking a balance in regard to the issue, and do a good job enforing the rules as any good company will do. they know people enjoy macroing so put in a strict CoC which gives them the freedom to enforce it as harshly as need be if abuse is rampant, but in reality take a more lenient approach, mainly going after those that are disruptive to other players. They know, that if they took it to the extreme and were harsh in regard to combat macros they would lose many more accoutns then they would gain, and since no business is in the business of losing money they wisely take a more reasonable approach. If some1 is reported they are almost always tested. if they are truly UCM, they get banned plain and simple. Seen it happen many times. 3 strikes and your out, its an effecient effective system that makes every1 happy.
All the LT changes do is screw up fellowships for people who are actually at the keyboard.. especially on white servers. You certainly arent hurting the guy at the lifestone in any way, as he would have received the same 0 xp whether he was logged off and out of the fellow or dead at ls.
This is not a "cause" for most people, and most people dont give a rats ass what others are doing as long as it doesn't effect them. It's hard enough to find a nice productive fellowship with a dwindling server population, why throw crap in the mix that makes it even more difficult.
Now a fellow leader has to watch the fellowship tab like a hawk, monitor fellows death messages, vitals, and take do "ucm" checks so he can remove some1 who is unattended? jeez that sounds tedius.. and like a job you should almost be paid for it.. if only there were people to perform that task.. oh yeah, there are.. ENVOYS!
Let turbine do their job, stop removing features from the program you were entrusted to maintain, let people decide how they want to play, and let turbine enforce their rules as they see fit.
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Reeve Sabrosa / Gann
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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Nicely said Reeve^. Agree ever with every bit of it.
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agnari
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as if anyone cares about your opinion that UCM'ing isnt an issue, it is against the CoC so IT IS AN issue.
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Lil-Blub
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So I believe it was a control thing as to why lifetank features are slowly being low balled.
Look at the updates since C'Relic has taken over. Notice he's also the board moderator now also along with his buddy Paraduck?
Coincidence?
I think not.
When it left SPK in it's original format I had a team together wanting to revamp it and make it better than ever...
But those ideas fell through.
I had the source code to the last one before Paraduck/C'relic took it over.
Too bad my harddrive crashed!
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Crelic_MT
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I absolutely love how you opt to not mention certain details.
But I'm not gonna bring that up again.
And Para isn't on VN staff anymore, he hasn't been for awhile. Everyone knows I'm a mod, it doesn't make a very good insult anymore.
C
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Lil-Blub
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I absolutely love how you opt to not mention certain details.
But I'm not gonna bring that up again.
And Para isn't on VN staff anymore, he hasn't been for awhile. Everyone knows I'm a mod, it doesn't make a very good insult anymore.
C
Regardless, Since you don't have the balls to say it... I never had/have/ever had your so called "source" you blamed me because I came forward saying I was going to shut down your shop and ruin what you had going on. You can claim the now is the now... but in all realism...
Your still a control freak imho. Look at the changes in the name of turbine. Little does anyone know that with a disassembler and a little time you can reveal that certain "toons" on MT are allowed an unrestricted version of the plugin that allows afk macroing.
How's the account selling lately? You making good money? Google ad sense pay your rent for you?
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Dredlic
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Honestly, after reading all these pages, i still just want to know how getting rid of the log on death is supposed to hurt ucmers, but you can still rationalize reinstating it on darktide without changing your anti UCM stance.
There is no negative reinforcer for the ucmer in this case on a white server, but plenty of negative consequences for the people who are fellowed with the ucmer. Usually do discourage a practice you would either reward a positive behavior (which we cant really do in this situation) or have some negative reinforcer to help discourage a unwanted behavior. The only possible negative thing that not logging out on death would have done to the ucmer would be if they were to die on darktide, or had used a hot lifestone. The fact that the log on death was reinstated on darktide says to me that you do not really want to punish the ucmer for his or her actions if their character may be affected. It makes it seem like you are all bark and no bite. If you want to be anti UCM then just take a stand and stick to it. Right now all you are doing is making the fellowship leaders job a lot harder, and taking hard earned xp away from the rest of the fellow, and claiming you are doing something to discourage macroing.
All your no log on death change has done is to make people angry when a ucm dies and stays at the lifestone. If the leader is a ucm it is a pain to recreate the fellowship and do reinvites, this game really isnt invite friendly. Are you wanting people to get angry with the macros and to report that player the next time they see them out hunting? This would help cut down on UCMers, and would be a consequence, but then you would be making us look like the bad guys. I really hate to tattle on people that are not hurting me, but with the recent changes they are hurting me although it is through none of their own intentions (Why, oh why, would you punish the people who are not participating in the negative behavior? If this is unintentional please let me know what this is actually supposed to accomplish). If people give it too much thought their anger may turn to the source of the problem. I know you want to keep it civil and all, and it should be, but what you are doing is really affecting many more players than just those that use your program to UCM, and doing very little, if anything, to the people who are.
I didnt come to just whine about these changes, i also brought a solution. Instead of log on death you could set it up to continuously @die right after each buff cycle, or even every 5 minutes, if the character remains inactive. That way there would be some sort of a negative reinforcer for using your program unattended. I'm sure you can think of lots of fun, effective ways to discourage UCMing if you really wanted to. I really dont expect a reply to this post after seeign how selective you have been with what posts to answer, but it would be nice to know what in the world you were thinking, and how darktide doesnt fit into the rest of the picture. Thanks!
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kinslayer271
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wanna know the best way? Report and get them banned.
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Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti "Ok I deleted my computer" <Ramuh> http://vnboards.ign.com/banned.asp I can't stand hypocrites
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agnari
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also if reinstalling log on death, don't make it optional. if macro is running Log out, force the slaggerd out of the fellowship.
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Ag Nar
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Adema_Adema_of_ff
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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i wouldn't do that. That would only hurt the person at the keyboard. If I die and I'm at the keyboard and log on death is always on that is just retarded. It should always be an option.
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_SimiuS_
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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make it logg u 30 sec if u dont tell it not to, like with a chat command, say /Lt hold, osmethne?
just a idea :P
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Lan'fear 275 Xbow, R A N D 275 Xbow, Product 275 Mace
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Monarch of Damage .Inc -Harvestgain
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therkyn
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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UPDATED: Saw the post saying Log on Death will return... Guess this is extraneous since logging would solve the Quit Fellowship on Death problem. But left just in case you decide it should stay away...
Crelic / Paraduck, Subject: Reasoning for "Quit Fellowship on Death"
My request is that if you choose not to return log-on-death to the plug-in, please consider "Quit Fellowship on Death." This is a simple matter to do with ACTool or SW, so I assume its not difficult to code. This would help those of us in fellowships where we cant boot the toon.
I've been in a fellowship many times where the leader is AFK/UCM, as a member of the fellowship, I cannot boot the toon who's not in the dungeon, not changing their HP, and not responding to tells... God forbid, the leader UCMs and then dies at the LS, you'd never get him/her booted.
Log on Death was never perfect. Many toons didnt use it and remained AFK at the LS in the fellowship. Quit Fellow on death probably wont be perfect either. I'm in a fellow right now (on the other PC) that I believe has 1 or 2 dead toons given how bad the XP is for a 9 player fellow. Until Turbine creates some method for non-leaders to boot from a fellow, we need dead toons to be booted... otherwise its just us ACMers paying the penalty.
Thanks, I hope your still reading this far into the thread... its gotten a bit tedious .
-t
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Circus_Freak
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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My request is that if you choose not to return log-on-death to the plug-in, please consider "Quit Fellowship on Death."
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is great idea but will need to be on some sort of user input timer
i dont want booted just because i died and loose my spot in fellow before i can buff, recall and find leader, however if a timer was installed that demanded keyboard input to stop/reset.. would work to everyones best interest imo
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Circus Freak - Master of Staves, Jack of all Trades Foxxxx - pwnd by the hotkey! Git-R-Dun at Run Mule Run's!!! http://www.stanford.edu/group/pandegroup/folding/
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-Kiande-
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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This is lame. You should give the source to someone who has a freaking clue.
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Thunderdome
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Lil-Blub
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LifetankXI 11.7.0.7 Released!
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I agree with the above comment.
That's my take on it too. I have all the original Lifetank X source. (Not XI.)
Anyone want's it since it's public anyhow, I have created a package that has all the files. Non altered.
I can provide the link because it's public.
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