Churi-ya
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Locked- See Last Post
For the error many of us are receiving for El Tank
A couple other threads said there is, but no one would elaborate. No reason to keep it a secret anymore if there is, not like Elgar's going to ban anyone from it's use.
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yaroz_vn
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I logged in on my main pc this morning, and it was still working. However, my trade mule pc still wasn't working. I dunno.
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Klymptof
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So the workaround is to keep buying new computers till it works on one of them? Pretty expensive workaround...
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yaroz_vn
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Nope.. no clue why it still works. Probably the same reason it hasn't timed out due to inactivity, since the day I installed it.
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vellus
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from what I have noticed it seems if it does not authorize, the combat related things are broke. The nav and autoloot were working fine for me though.
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ElgarL
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You are correct Vellus.
If there is a 'work around' I'll give my permisison for it to be published....
...so long as it doesn't involve altering the ELTank DLL or any of it's associated files.
I'm no longer hosting the Auth as I refuse to keep paying the server costs to support a company which conducts business as Turbine does.
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Churi-ya
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The work around is:
Get your characters burden carrying capacity up for 300-400 stamina potions so Lifetank will work reliably for an Archer or Melee. For some reason Lifetank doesn't like to cast re-stam for these two character types while in combat.
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Drakier
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Elgar: if you wanted to release the "Authoirzation" specific portion of your protocol, it would be a lot easier for people to "Work around" the problem. I'm not saying open up the full format, but enough for tank to authorize without opening anyone up to security vulnerabilities or anything.
I'm not sure how your protocol was designed without taking things apart, but would it be possible to set up a webpage that could give a "validated" response?
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Duri_Gallant
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Drakier,
I think Elgar made it pretty clear that he wanted it to break and when it does that he will no longer support it.
~Duri
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MT_Gouru
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We should probably support his wishes and killbit the plugin.
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miscrient
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I'm no longer hosting the Auth as I refuse to keep paying the server costs to support a company which conducts business as Turbine does.
First, thanks for the plugin, it certainly added greatly to my ingame experience 
Second, I'd be more than happy to host an auth server(s), I've got more than adequate resources to do so (US,EU,AU), and it'd be nice to give something back to the community.
Food for thought.
Good luck in your future endevours Elgar
--misc
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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MT_Gouru posted:
We should probably support his wishes and killbit the plugin.
wow
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hobartbouregarde
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I've always been a tank supporter.
I have also supported ElGar's decision to cease future support for the plugin.
I just don't understand cutting off 1000+ users because of 40 pence. Many of us contributed a lot more than that.
Just make one last change to the code and eliminate the /auth and we would be happy.
I'm sure many of us would send you the 40 pence.
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Migy_AC
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Here's to hoping one of the decal gods takes pity on poor souls like me and publishes a fix that El can live with.
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David_the_Bear
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hobartbouregarde posted:
I've always been a tank supporter.
I have also supported ElGar's decision to cease future support for the plugin.
I just don't understand cutting off 1000+ users because of 40 pence. Many of us contributed a lot more than that.
Just make one last change to the code and eliminate the /auth and we would be happy.
I'm sure many of us would send you the 40 pence.
  What's a pence???
DtB
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BowWitch
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I have nothing but sympathy for Elgar's position!
Also, I can also understand not wanting to work for free!
I, for one would be happy to contribute. In fact, I'm going to contribute $75.00 to his tip jar, as a way of starting things rolling. Even if Elgar stands by his decision to shut down the auth server, I figure it is money well spent....my thank you note for the years I've used Tank!
Come on all you Tank fans...put your money where your mouth is!
Elgar, it won't be until tonight before I get Pay Pal funded again, but count on it, one player ponying up what should have been yours a long time ago.
Edit: Bleh, his web site is gone. 
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Hamfast
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You all seem to think it's about the money...
Silly silly people...
How many of you are willing to sell out one of your principals for money???
Do you think you could pay MT_Gouru enough for him to write you a UCM program? I doubt it (unless it started reporting you as UCM soon after it started) He has principals, he sticks by them...
Elgar has Principals as well, he will not sell those out for 40 pence or 40 Million Pounds...
By the way, if you are willing to sell out your principals for money, you really have none.
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Xieish
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I would create a UCM program for a substantial amount of money. I have morals, values, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day if I need money to survive that trumps my principles in an online video game. 
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Drakier
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yeah.. that's a good idea...
Give elgar MORE money. As if he hadn't already received enough.
Does anyone rememeber the last time he "pulled" the auth server? He made ELTank pay only, received a few thousand dollars in donations, brought ELTank back up, then made it free again.
He's quitting AC. He's quitting ELTank. NO amount of money will bring him back, and I don't know why you would even CONSIDER rewarding this kind of behavior. He broke his word. He said he would leave ELTank up and alone until Decal broke it. Now he's pulling it down prematurely because he's throwing another fit. And you're buying into it.
Do not reward that kind of behavior.
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Churi-ya
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I am going to hijack this thread and bring it back to -
- is there an EXISTING work around that will allow us to use that plug in?
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Mr_Snappy
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Who do you think is most affected by this, Turbine or the many players who use the plugin to enjoy the game who can't now?
I run a tinker/buff bot on Frostfell for the general public and while I understand how ElGar might feel, without his plugin I won't be able to do that any longer.
Turbine did wrong in the billing thing, they aren't responding and all that but I don't see how this move will affect them.
As it did so many things well I know more people will be affected by the loss of the auth of El Tank.
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Xieish
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Yes, I have a work around already, but I do not have the means to implement it.
I need someone WHO HAS NOT TRIED TO LOGIN WITH THE BROKEN EL TANK - IE you never saw the "Plugin Disabled" or whatever message, and haven't played with Tank since before he took the server down.
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The_Korrigan
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I still think elgarl is an immature and egocentric person who never cared about anyone but himself, and this is just another proof that I'm right about that, but I must admit that he offers me a nice present with all the whines of the pathetic people who are dependent on a plug in that autopilots their characters to play a video game.
In short : learn2play ! 
(and if you only need something to buff/salvage without macroing, Alinco is VERY nice, certainly even better than that lousy Visual Basic poorly programmed piece of crap eltank was)
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Amuk_LC
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I have not logged in yet. Internet has been down at home and its getting fixed today.
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Abdul_TD
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Snappy, there is a much better tinkerbot script written for ACTool.
Once you have run that, you will think the tinkerbot portion of ELTank was a joke in comparison.
ELTank was a great overall program (It blows away Lifetank easily), but tinkering was never one of ELGarl's primary objectives for the plugin and he only did the minimum amount required to give it a limited functionality.
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Xieish
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Alpha workaround in the works, but I'm sorry, according to ElGar I'm not allowed to distribute it via public channels because of how we had to do it.
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Drakier
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Xieish: I'm working on a fake auth server with a HOSTS file workaround. Unfortunately, my work has impeded my ability to go at a faster rate. Hopefully I'll get more time over the holiday and get something out. Only problem is there seems to be a check on the IP address which prevents a HOSTS change form working completely correctly. I will however keep trying.
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Xieish
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I bypassed it already.
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Drakier
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yes... but not in a way that can be distributed.
I'm looking for a solution that won't go against Elgar's wishes.. no matter how much I dislike what he's doing or what he's done.
He said not to alter the DLL, so I'm attempting to work out a solution that does just that. I don't know if it will even be possible, but I'm attempting.
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Xieish
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AFAIK besides setting up your own local DNS server and intentionally poisoning it (this is ludicrous to get an AC plugin working) there's absolutely no way it will be possible without hacking up the program itself.
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Drakier
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It's possible.. just might not be feasible. With enough knowledge of low level programming, anything is possible. It's just a matter of effort, time, and reward.
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Xieish
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I don't see how you can make it bypass the check without doing what i did, because you're going to have to tamper with that DLL file somehow.
As far as I'm concerned he can suck an egg, I have no reason to respect his wishes once he abandons development and support for the program.
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Drakier
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I know network voodoo.
it's possible to intercept and even alter packets.. just might be a little difficult and not worth the time and effort in this case.
as I said.. I need to really check what's going on with this code more and see if there is something I can exploit or use to bypass that check. If so, then I'm clear.
Technically, I might even be able to create a wrapper that can do the modification in memory and not require altering the DLL...
There are a lot of options. I can possibly still create a workaround without having to violate Elgars wishes.
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Yula_the_Mighty
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David_the_Bear posted:
What's a pence???
DtB
There are 100 pence to the British pound. Pence being plural to penny. A penny is 1/100 of a British pound Sterling.
Very similar to the American cent which is 1/100 of a US dollar. An American penny is the common name for a coin with the value of 1 cent. I think all normal Americans hate the official name which is 'one cent coin'. Same thing with a nickel. A nickel is officially a 'five cent coin'. You certainly are not going to find penny or nickel written on these coins. I guess the mint wants to keep their option open for printing a 'one cent bill'.
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Xieish
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http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8600/eltankal4.jpg
EDIT: This is *NOT* running a local auth server.
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Taylsah
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Alpha workaround in the works, but I'm sorry, according to ElGar I'm not allowed to distribute it via public channels because of how we had to do it.
------
As far as I'm concerned he can suck an egg, I have no reason to respect his wishes once he abandons development and support for the program.
I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? You'll break the .dll but not distribute it to obey the wishes of Elgar? I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, but does he really have any recourse if some one does? I'm not familiar with copyright laws, but it seems he wouldn't have much he could do if some one did go against his wishes. What's going on here?
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KaBOOM_SC
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what was the URL of the auth server?
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Drakier
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Taylsah: in my opinion it's a matter of ethics (as most things are).
Just because Elgar did something which I dislike and don't approve of, doesn't make it OK to go directly against his wishes.. no matter how many times he did it to me.
Breaking his wishes and distributing a cracked DLL makes you no better than he is. There are ways to work within the system and come up with the same result. Just takes more brainpower and time. Doesn't make it impossible, just much more difficult. And sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes, the "right" thing takes more effort than the "wrong" thing.
the easy way is very seldom the "right" way.
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KaBOOM_SC
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im sorry
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ElgarL
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Taylsah, it's nothing to do with my wishes. It's called breaking the law. If you crack the DLL and distribute it (or the method) then you will be guilty of illegal hacking.
It's exactly the same as pirating software, films and music.
Find a legal workaround and I have no problem. Break the law and I will chase you.
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Churi-ya
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Christ Elgar, ok, you won, you abandoned us, we get it ok? Go mine some ore and leave us be.
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Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - DM for 28 Years!
Asheron's Call: Bleys Icefalcon; Monarch of Renaissance - on Harvestgain
If you want someone to be politically correct, I suggest not engaging me in conversation.
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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ElgarL posted:
Taylsah, it's nothing to do with my wishes. It's called breaking the law. If you crack the DLL and distribute it (or the method) then you will be guilty of illegal hacking.
It's exactly the same as pirating software, films and music.
Find a legal workaround and I have no problem. Break the law and I will chase you.
Oh BS Elgarl, No one is going to kick his damn door down for hex editing your little macro dll so don't even try to go there.
I needed a good lol this am.
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mrwrenchus
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ElGarl you should leave the server up like you said you would I was 1 of the people too that love Tank and donated numerous times to help you keep it running If you cant leave the server up like you said you would ,I do hope someone finds a work around it and distributes it all over so we can all use it again.
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ElgarL
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Ftuoil, I may not be a big corporation like MS, but I'm 100% behind protecting my property.
If he Hex edits and distributes, then I will 100% attempt to push legal action.
If you can't do it legally then you shouldn't do it at all. I know the VN won't support it and neither will the majority of people.
He's also quite traceable. He's even posted his characters name in the screen shot, but I'll trust him to be an honest citizen and keep his work to himself.
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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ElgarL posted:
Ftuoil, I may not be a big corporation like MS, but I'm 100% behind protecting my property.
If he Hex edits and distributes, then I will 100% attempt to push legal action.
If you can't do it legally then you shouldn't do it at all. I know the VN won't support it and neither will the majority of people.
He's also quite traceable. He's even posted his characters name in the screen shot, but I'll trust him to be an honest citizen and keep his work to himself.
Haha wow your amazing if you think anyone cares about a "copywrite" on a macro dll.
Maybe you can sue Turbine for your 80 cents too...
If you had 1/2 a brain you would realize that hacking a programs authorization to use it, is the same as the same as the same, all be it hex editing a dll file or bounching a fake web request for access.
People seem to forget your little temper tantrum 3 years ago when you "took your toys and went home",
this is just another episode proving of how little ethics you posses.
The ONLY reason a MOD has not locked this and the other threads is hope that your going to post that
"OK, OK... donate more money to my wife's paypal christmas fund and I with authorize you..." Post from you.
Thanks for the entertainment while my Turkey is cooking... Please don't stop now.
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Crelic_MT
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He's right. If he doesn't specifically tell me it's OK for someone to publish a way around his security protocols, it IS against VN Rules as exploitations and hacks, and is a very bannable offense.
It is his plugin, his servers, his sole work. He doesn't want anyone using it any longer, it's pretty obvious at this point.
And I haven't locked these threads because there is no reason to do so. He has mentioned you can try to find a way if it involved not breaking the DLLs. Unless he says or asks me otherwise, or the threads do start breaking rules, there are nothing wrong with these discussions.
-C
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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Crelic_MT posted:
He's right. If he doesn't specifically tell me it's OK for someone to publish a way around his security protocols, it IS against VN Rules as exploitations and hacks, and is a very bannable offense.
It is his plugin, his servers, his sole work. He doesn't want anyone using it any longer, it's pretty obvious at this point.
And I haven't locked these threads because there is no reason to do so. He has mentioned you can try to find a way if it involved not breaking the DLLs. Unless he says or asks me otherwise, or the threads do start breaking rules, there are nothing wrong with these discussions.
-C
And his pulling support for a program that hundreds of people PAID too use and received a recipt for isn't aganst any laws?
I say just for the hell of it, someone starts up a class action law suit aganst him just to greif his greedy intentions...
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Crelic_MT
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According to him, those were considered donations I believe... and that list you posted was inaccurate. Even if they did pay, they didn't pay for the life of the product, but rather permission to use it. Unless there were signed contracts involved, he can still do whatever he wants.
-C
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Xieish
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Two people have a copy of "cracked" ElTank, Myself and the guy who worked with me to do it. I had about 20 PMs since last night asking for it, and everyone was told that per ElGar's wishes, I wasn't going to distribute it.
The only reason I cracked it as much as I did (slightly more than regular Hex editing) was because my computer was having all sorts of problems running a local auth server, so I needed a way around it totally, which was accomplished.
*******
Evaluation Version Software Products may include software code intended to disable their functionality after the expiration of the Evaluation Term. You may take no actions to circumvent the operation of such disabling code, and you accept all risks that might arise from such disabling code.
*******
Sorry guys.
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miscrient
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I offered to host auth servers, which [would] cost Elgar nothing (already costing me a load), yet it goes unanswered.
If you're really trying to punish Turbine and not the players, WTF?
Please tell me this isn't about 15 minute of fame..
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GutterSludge
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i bypassed the auth the first time it didnt work correctly, about a year ago. not that hard to do....
i uninstalled eltank and went to a different looting program as soon as elgar said he was quitting.
ill never use an elgarl program again. Im tired of his attitude.
the best way to get back at elgar for abandoning those that dontated, is to let him and his program die, and to forget his arse forever.
elgar wants drama.. if he didnt, he would have never posted this crap about 40 pence...he wants everyone to beg him for a soulution..
i say dont do it, remove /delete eltank, and let the crybaby move on to being forgotten.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
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Taylsah
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-nm- Just found my answer on another thread
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AC-Theriex
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Looks like someone posted a hacked tank on usenet. Seems to work fine for me.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< And his pulling support for a program that hundreds of people PAID too use and received a recipt for isn't aganst any laws? >>
Nope, it isn't. Try to sue Microsoft for dropping support on any of its products.
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Churi-ya
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A-EFFING-MEN GUTTER!!!!!
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bartzHG
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[MOD-Spam]
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hobartbouregarde
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what newsgroup?
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ElgarL posted:
Taylsah, it's nothing to do with my wishes. It's called breaking the law. If you crack the DLL and distribute it (or the method) then you will be guilty of illegal hacking.
It's exactly the same as pirating software, films and music.
Find a legal workaround and I have no problem. Break the law and I will chase you.
lol unless you copyrighted the plugin, then you don't understand the way the world works. And if you understood copyright law at all you would know that reverse engineering a program IS legal.
Also, isnt this exactly what decal does in general and ElTank in particular. Hack the AC client to get YOUR program to run properly? You were reverse engineering the ac client EVERY time you had to fix tank to make it work around changes the developers implemented to THEIR software. So please don't give us this holier than thou BS. It sickens us all.
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MT_Gouru
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Software has a higher level of default protection than your standard copyright. Sorry, at least in the US, posting a hacked dll is illegal.
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AC-Theriex
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Software has a higher level of default protection than your standard copyright. Sorry, at least in the US, posting a hacked dll is illegal.
---------------------
Uh oh, watch out! Here comes the FBI and Interpol to come and get you because you hacked a mod for a game. LMAO, come on, the idea of any consequences to actually hacking the program is laughable. I think they have better things to do then waste their resources on some little mod made by a nobody.
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MT_Gouru
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I said nothing about how hard it would be enforced. It was a reply to the person that claimed copyright law was the controlling factor here. He is wrong. Digital protection laws are the deciding factor, and they are tougher than copyright laws. Simple fact. Has nothing at all to do with how important this particular case would be to the authorities, the law is broken either way.
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AC-Theriex
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Wasn't disagreeing with you, was just laughing at the fact how some ppl actually by into Elgarl's ridiculous threats of coming after us if we hack the dll, it's just not going to happen. That and laws are different everywhere, just because it is illegal to do something where he is, doesn't mean it is illegal everywhere else.
Elgarl needs to quit whining, lots of ppl are gonna hack his dll (some already have, including me) and theres nothing he can do about it.
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ElgarL
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You are so sure there isn't? Be happy.
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mrwrenchus
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OK since no one wants to public list a link for the workaround can someone please PM me a link or something to get the workaround so I can use Tank again. El never said you could'nt pm it to people. I would work on the thing myself but do not have to programs to do it. Thats why I donated so much money to him to keep it running. I'm tired of LTX killing me repeatedly. I am mostly Begging hopping El Garl will turn his server back on so that all of us that dont have access to DLL. programing can run His Tank again. I'm no programming wizard and I know alot of people that play AC are'nt either. So we will all be left High and Dry with our pants around are ankles with a Greasy residue around you know what. While El takes his Toilet paper away smiling. Please dont leave us dirty El Atlease make us think we dropped are pants for a reason. And please leave the Toilet paper so we can clean are A**'s off. Thank you
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Crelic_MT
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If I understood copywrite laws correctly anyway, you don't NEED to buy a copywrite to have something copywritten (but it's easier). If you publicly publish something, and you can prove you were the first and only one... it's copy written then and there. Gouru's probably on to someone about the Digital laws as well, but I'm not familiar with those.
Still, it's his work, his programming, his plugin. Anyone out there who has the balls to say otherwise to modify and release without permission shouldn't be using any plugin in the first place.
Mrwrenchus, and to add.. Lifetank didn't kill you, your not being at the keyboard or not paying attention did.
-C
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mrwrenchus
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Life Tank suxs I have never Ucmed I use it for buffing and for hunting while i'm at the keys why must people imply that becouse you have the program you UCM. So please dont think you know how i hunt becouse you dont. Some of us Accually use it as A Hunting Assitance program not a Unattended program. It took me a full 7 years to Cap my lvl unlike somepeople who do it in a month. Eltank Was the best thing that came to AC becouse of all of it uses no other program writen can even come close to running all the Uses Elgarl wrote into Eltank. I will not ever ucm after playing 7 years I dont want my Account banned for doing something that stupid if you cant lvl slowly and enjoy it don't play at all. So dont talk about me like you know me please.
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Volthorn
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hey elcraybaby.....cry more.... if you use your plugin the way it was intended you have nothin to cry about mr ucm master
and by the way your plugin sucked anyway
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The_Korrigan
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elgarl will very unlikely attack you because you supposedly "cracked" his dll, because I strongly doubt he paid to put a real copyright on the source and compiled code of eltank. I have published my own software, several times, and I know how it works, and it's not free either, really not worth the hassle and the price just for a "haxxor plugin" for a computer game.
Another thing ... do you really thing elgarl, from United Kingdom, will start to put random people all over the world on trial because they "hacked" his lame (and also unsupported) computer game plugin ? Do you imagine the costs involved in doing such things internationally ? Even the big companies most of the time "let it go" because the costs involved would be higher than the eventual gain, specially with the chances of winning being so low considering he certainly didn't deposit his source code and put a real copyright on his plugin.
Basically, if you decide to hack his dll and distribute it, he can do ... nothing. elgarl is, once again, barking loud, bragging a lot, and making drama, but he can't bite. Remember, he's only a little guy somewhere in England with an exaggerated ego who made an insignificant, unofficial and also non commercial macro plugin for an online game. Not exactly the kind of person to make international trials.
This said, I must admit I would be quite amused to see the hacker "hacked" 
-----signature-----
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vellus
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Wait a sec Korrigan...you go from El Tank being the downfall of AC due to its ucm features to calling it insignificant. You seem to have developped a lot of hate for something so little then...?
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Hate ? What a big word. Using "dislike" would be more appropriate, because yeah, I don't like that guy, but I hate nobody. I'm just enjoying my little revenge, and it's very entertaining. It's also fun to see former elgarl supporters turn into spoiled brats or even haters because he stopped feeding them their macroing needs, some are begging pathetically, some are menacing and even trying to find legal ways to force elgarl to resume eltank development (in which they are even more funny than elgarl when he makes trial menaces for hacking eltank) ... my entertainment doesn't only come from the eltank author here.
And yes, in the big scheme of things, eltank is insignificant, as a plugin of an online video game, and certainly not worth an international trial. That was the main meaning of the word "insignificant" in my previous post.
There's one point of view that is respectable in this thread, it's Drakier's. He preaches respect for someone who obviously never respected him in return, and asks not to hack his addon, and that is commendable. Sadly, I am not as nice as Drakier is.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
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Xieish
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I also don't want to post my version because I do not want to become the point of support if it ever goes down again. I already got about 100 PMs already.
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KaBOOM_SC
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then email it to someone who doesnt mind hosting the file. Im sure you would have no problem finding an anonomyous person to do such a chore.
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ElgarL
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The discussion of distributing an illegal version of a plugin is against these forums rules.
Actually just admitting to have done it is a break of the rules.
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Crelic_MT
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You people don't listen well.. do you? He doesn't want his plugin modified.
Copyrighted Material must be respected
No Piracy, ROMs, Abandonware and Warez
If you have done it, distributing it will not be allowed and will be handled in accordance to VNBoard Rules.
This is enough.
-C
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